Iginla: Hockey is better and safer with fighting in it

[troutman]

Originally Posted by strombad

As an aside, out of genuine curiosity:

Why is it people in the anti-fighting group are concerned with the health of millionaires who choose to risk their own health in physically damaging acts?

This is one thing that people never seem to mention and I'd actually like to know.

Guilt? Empathy?

Ex. Muhammad Ali was rewarded substantially for getting hit in the head for our entertainment. I don't feel good about that.

If a solider volunteers for combat, should we not feel bad if they are killed or maimed? They knew the risks, right?

Why does it matter if they are "millionaires"?

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by troutman

Guilt? Empathy?

Ex. Muhammad Ali was rewarded substantially for getting hit in the head for our entertainment. I don't feel good about that.

If a solider volunteers for combat, should we not feel bad if they are killed or maimed? They knew the risks, right?

Why does it matter if they are "millionaires"?

Athletes get paid millions of dollars to sacrifice their bodies for the entertainment of millions. If they were playing no-contact ringette or field hockey than I doubt they'd be getting paid this amount of money. It's not like they left promising careers as lawyers, docters etc (not trying to knock the intelligence of NHLers).

If you don't want your son to be in hockey fights and get concussions than don't enroll him in hockey. Although never playing ice hockey I've had friends in the past get several concussions between the age of 12-14 and this wasn't due to hockey fights.

This is a dangerous sport and you get paid to battle. Enough said.

The only way fighting will ever be removed from hockey is if the NHL can't afford to deal with lawsuits and things of that nature.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by strombad

As an aside, out of genuine curiosity:

Why is it people in the anti-fighting group are concerned with the health of millionaires who choose to risk their own health in physically damaging acts?

This is one thing that people never seem to mention and I'd actually like to know.

Because they're human beings we know? (Even though not on a personal level.)

I don't see how that needs explaining.

As to your longer post; I'm getting tired of your nonsense. Whether you actually don't understand or you're actively trying to misunderstand everything to feed your own arguments, I just don't care anymore. Back on ignore you go.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by Itse

Because they're human beings we know? (Even though not on a personal level.)

I don't see how that needs explaining.

As to your longer post; I'm getting tired of your nonsense. Whether you actually don't understand or you're actively trying to misunderstand everything to feed your own arguments, I just don't care anymore. Back on ignore you go.

Everyone has their own opinion and there are clearly valid arguments for both sides.

Might you be able to tell me what was the cause of death from ice hockey? I seem to believe it was a nasty bertuzzi like hit from a euro league where fighting doesn't necessary police the game as it does in the NHL.

The last career ending injuries have stemmed from hits from behind, in game where the speeds of players make them an unlicensed weapon that can potentially kill. An NHL hockey fight seems not half as dangerous as a nasty and uncalled for hit to the head.

People taking such a strong stance should get their priorities straight if so concerned about the safety of players. History suggests that fights are not nearly as detrimental to player health.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Might you be able to tell me what was the cause of death from ice hockey? I seem to believe it was a nasty bertuzzi like hit from a euro league where fighting doesn't necessary police the game as it does in the NHL.

If you are intending to ask what was the cause of death of the one player in NHL history who has died, Bill Masterton died after hitting his (unprotected) head against the ice following a hit. The hit was clean, and it has been suggested that he was already playing despite a pre-existing head injury. (i.e.: the 'tough guy' attitude of hockey, especially in the 60s).

However, there has been at least one player dying from a fight (senior hockey in Ontario a few years ago), and at least one of a player dying from a skate blade (Europe, some time ago). There are several ways someone can be seriously injured in hockey, and indeed, anything - including a fight - can result in fatal consequences.

People taking such a strong stance should get their priorities straight if so concerned about the safety of players. History suggests that fights are not nearly as detrimental to player health.

In the context you present - risk of career ending injury or death - I agree entirely. The "take fighting out of hockey because of CTE" argument is borderline hypocritical if the same people cheer any good bodycheck.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by troutman

Guilt? Empathy?

Ex. Muhammad Ali was rewarded substantially for getting hit in the head for our entertainment. I don't feel good about that.

If a solider volunteers for combat, should we not feel bad if they are killed or maimed? They knew the risks, right?

Why does it matter if they are "millionaires"?

The only reason it's worth mentioning is because they are very, VERY well compensated for the risks they take. These aren't soldiers who are underpaid and unsupported upon the end of their tours, these are athletes that generally being home millions of dollars to do what they do. That's the only reason I added "millionaires."

There are a lot of ways to show appreciation for athletes who risk their health for the game (or for copious amounts of money). I'm not sure that eliminating the jobs some of them have is one of them, but it doesn't bother me.

Plus, not that this MATTERS really, but Boxing and UFC are much more dangerous sports to long term physical health, but the debate over their very existence never seems as strong as the debate over fighting in hockey. I've always found that kind of fascinating.

Originally Posted by Itse

I just don't care anymore. Back on ignore you go.

Is this kind of like when your wife says "I'm not talking to you right now!"?

I always find it surprising that people let themselves get upset over opinions when the ignore button is ready and waiting on the outset. I don't think I anyone is forced to read or respond to anything I've said, so do your thing. I'm happy to have a conversation with anyone who doesn't find it so upsetting they can't bear to read another word.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by strombad

Plus, not that this MATTERS really, but Boxing and UFC are much more dangerous sports to long term physical health, but the debate over their very existence never seems as strong as the debate over fighting in hockey..

The debate over boxing is very much alive. The standing 10 count is barbaric, guys can be concussed but as long as they "shake the cobwebs" they're considering good to go. The more we learn about concussions and the brain the more boxing is being turned away from.

Mixed martial arts is different in that regard, a guy is knocked out and the fight is over, it's also a sport where technically someone can win a fight without ever punching a guy to the head. MMA is a combat sport, a physical sport but I think it's closer to the physicality of hockey etc then boxing.

Unless the people who run boxing and the fans are prepared to remove the standing 10 count and allow a fight to be over when a guy is knocked out, then the sport should die away.

[LChoy]

Is there a CP poll out there on fighting in the NHL. Would be curious to see what the numbers are like

[Wormius]

Not that it matters, but players aren't exactly raking in the millions until they reach the NHL level.

I enjoyed reading most of the arguments in this thread. I lean towards the anti-fighting side, just because I have seen entertaining games without fighting in them, eg) Olympics. I also don't agree much with the momentum change that a fight causes. I think an easy metric would be number of games where there was a come from behind win after a fight occurred. Who's team is this sparking anyway?

[Stay Golden]

What a well written, intelligent, insightful and honest piece of writing by Iggy. If that was not credited to Iginla as the author you would swear that was a piece written by an accomplished sports journalist. Hats off to Iginla, what a class act.
He should join CP as a member. A post like that is a joy to read.

[stemit14]

Great write up from iggy and he makes a great case for fighting. I for one am on the side of keeping fighting in the game. It is something unique to this sport and it's entertaining (at least to me). I know it's a little sentimental and not a great argument for it but I just think it's a part of the game and it can have a huge impact under the right circumstances.

I still remember one of the best regular season games I ever went to was Calgary vs. San Jose about 3-4 years ago. Iginla got a Gordie Howe hat trick after fighting Ryan Clowe in the 3rd period. Iginla connected with a huge right hand after ducking a punch from Clowe... That sent Clowe to the ice like a sac of potatoes. The Dome went crazy! Flames won the game on that performance and I still remember it to this day. I can't remember his goal or his assist in that game, but I can remember the fight and the effect it had on the crowd and the team.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by habernac

Again, how many fights did you see in the Olympics? In the 87 Canada Cup? The World Cups? It's not necessary. Those games weren't a stick show, either. The league could easily get rid of this stuff but chooses not to. Suspend the cheap shot artists out of the game.

I have no issues with a good fight, but the writing is on the wall. It will disappear sooner rather than later. And it won't be a big deal to me.

I don't like this argument because it assumes that International Tournaments are the highest and best hockey that is played, which just isn't the true. The best hockey that gets played in the world is NHL playoff hockey, hands down. And it has some fighting in it which contributes to it's greatness

What is doesn't have is pointless staged fights and guys instigating fights after clean hits. That stuff should go. Playoff hockey has much less fighting than regular season hockey and the fights are usually two good players going at it to settle a difference a la Lecalvalier/Iginla

I think the amount of fighting we see in playoffs is the perfect amount for the game of hockey. If games in the NHL started to look like an International Tournament a lot of people would stop watching and it wouldn't be the same. Olympic hockey is great for two weeks every four years but over an 82 game season plus playoffs it would be brutal

[Clarkey]

This whole board was anti fighting after Parros got hurt, chronic group think if I ever did see.