[Trade]Vanek for Moulson and 2014 1st and 2015 2nd rounders

[VladtheImpaler]

The morning crew said that Vanek wants to sign in Minnesota this off-season, and with Heatley's $7.5M coming off the books... I think it's a terrible trade for the Isles, but we shall see. Regier is the king of getting maximum return.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

Curious how many teams try to make a play for mcdavid by setting up for extreme failure next season.

With the changes to the draft lottory I would say very few... trying to tank for a generational level talent is a lot more acceptable then trying to tank for a 25% chance at a generational level talent (especially if you think that 1 or more other teams will attempt to do the same).

[HartAttack]

Poor trade for Isles. Moulson is everything you would want, without the stardom... Fit in perfectly along side Tavares.

Moulson for Vanek straight up would be a better discussion IMO.

[Meers]

Originally Posted by 19Yzerman19

Getting a first and a prospect out of Cammalleri at the deadline (assuming he plays well for the balance) seems totally reasonable.

No. No it isn't.

[FlameZilla]

Originally Posted by Meers

No. No it isn't.

No, as in it's not fair value? No, as in you'd rather he stay a Flame?

[red sky]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

The morning crew said that Vanek wants to sign in Minnesota this off-season, and with Heatley's $7.5M coming off the books... I think it's a terrible trade for the Isles, but we shall see. Regier is the king of getting maximum return.

What is the connection with Minnesota?

[19Yzerman19]

Originally Posted by Meers

No. No it isn't.

Why would you think he's not worth that to a team that's looking to beef up for a run? Particularly given you can sell him on past playoff production at least to some extent. I mean, if he falls off the map between now and spring, that's a different story.

[SofaProfessor]

If you're a fantasy hockey player; Vanek's value just went through the roof in this humble observer's opinion.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by red sky

What is the connection with Minnesota?

to quote myself from this thread:

Originally Posted by devo22

well to be fair it's only been speculation ... just something that would make a lot of sense because

a) he played college hockey there
b) his wife is from there
c) he lives there in the offseason
d) two good friends and ex-teammates (Ballard and Pominville) play there

but that doesn't mean he'll want to sign there ... I have a hard time finding an interview with Vanek in the Austrian press where he doesn't stress the importance of winning a cup. Don't know if the Wild would necessarily be my destination of choice in that case.

[PeteMoss]

Minnesota is becoming the Toronto of the US. Every player who ever had a connection there evidently is now hell bent on playing there because they landed Parise and Suter. Which I'm sure had only to do with a Minnesota connection and not the fact they got 13 year mega deals.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Minnesota is becoming the Toronto of the US. Every player who ever had a connection there evidently is now hell bent on playing there because they landed Parise and Suter. Which I'm sure had only to do with a Minnesota connection and not the fact they got 13 year mega deals.

List all the players that are rumored to be going there.

[herashak]

Can minnesota pay vanek? Sure heatley comes off the books but vanek will want term. big contracts to parise sutter pomminville and good young players like brodin, coyle, granlund etc will get paydays soon. i say vanek stays in ny

[devo22]

Originally Posted by herashak

Can minnesota pay vanek? Sure heatley comes off the books but vanek will want term. big contracts to parise sutter pomminville and good young players like brodin, coyle, granlund etc will get paydays soon. i say vanek stays in ny

they can, but they would use an awful lot of cap on five players:

7.5 for Parise until 2025
7.5 for Suter until 2025
6.8 for Koivu until 2018
5.6 for Pominville until 2019

add Vanek at about 7.5 to that and you spend nearly 35m on just 5 players ... even if the cap rises, that's about half of the cap spent on a quarter of the roster. With all the young guys coming through the ranks and needing raises in a couple years, I don't know if I would commit long-term to that kind of money.

Don't know about Minnys finances though. I guess Vanek would want a big signing bonus at the beginning of the contract though, and I doubt that they can easily do that after throwing huge signing bonuses at Suter and Parise.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

List all the players that are rumored to be going there.

Suter and Parise last year.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by 19Yzerman19

Trade Moulson for another first and a prospect at the deadline, and bob's your rebuilding uncle. Like this trade for Buffalo. Only like it for NYI if they can re-sign Vanek.

As far as Cammalleri goes, and people saying Vanek is on another level, yeah, he is. But that's why he got a perennial 30 goal scorer in addition to those two picks. Getting a first and a prospect out of Cammalleri at the deadline (assuming he plays well for the balance) seems totally reasonable.

at the trade deadline ..... If it is for a playoff run Cammalleri will should have a greater trade value than either Moulson or Vanek.


Cammalleri has actually carried a team deep into the playoffs.


Both Moulson and Vanek are better regular season players and will sign for much more in their next contract than the 2 year older , smaller, less productive Cammalleri BUT if there was one guy that might be able to carry your team an extra round or 2 it would be Cammalleri...... Much the same way that Pit/Boston thought Iginla might be the extra catalyst to win the cup.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by Meers

No. No it isn't.

I assume you mean it isn't reasonable. You'd be wrong.

Flames will get one of the following combinations:
1st, low/mid prospect
2nd, high prospect
2nd, 2 low prospects
High prospect, low prospect

There are, of course, other possible returns, but those are certainly the most feasible and likely.

[ricardodw]

Under the heading of the grass is always greener::

Super star Vanek over the last 3 season has played 196 games and scored 78 goals (30 on the PP) getting paid somewhere around $21M

Journeyman plugger Glencross played 186 games and scored 65 goals (14 on PP) getting paid 7.5M..

Taking out the PP Glencross has outscored Vanek 51 to 48 !!!!!


Glencross has had Stajan and Jokinen as his centres and Stempniak, Moss, Bourque as his linemates..


There is a reason that Hartley sends out Glencross for his 18-20 minutes / game no matter how disinterested Glencross looks. You can't imagine Vanek getting benched and he averages far worse production 5 on 5 than Glencross.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

I think it will be possible to get a first rounder for Cammi, but no doubt it would be from a contender, meaning something in the mid-to-late twenties. The thing with the Islanders, is that they could legitimately miss the playoffs given their goaltending situation, meaning that pick could be top ten. Very risky deal for them.

[Jake]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Vanek is a FAR better player than Moulson, and I think that with an opportunity to play alongside one of the best players in the world, Vanek will almost certainly outproduce him. But even if it is by a small margin, this is not the best way to evaluate the trade from an Islanders perspective. Another consideration here is how much more dangerous does Vanek make Tavares? Further, how much more do the lower two scoring lines benefit from having Vanek in the lineup? There is a discernible trickle-down effect here in offence that Vanek provides, that Moulson never could. The fact that Vanek can carry a line on his own where Moulson could not makes him an immanently more valuable player, and the cost more justifiable (depending upon a contract extension, of course) for the Islanders.

Bottom line to me is that I think there are better ways to spend a 1st and 2nd round pick.

Optimistically, I think Vanek will score 10-20 points more than Moulson (if Moulson had stayed with Tavares) and Tavares production may improve too. A lot of those points will come from the same goals too.

The "trickle down" effect would only happen if Vanek plays on his own line. If he just replaces Moulson on LW beside Tavares, than it comes down to Moulson vs. Vanek, and how much Tavares' production improves. Plus, how much more can Tavares potentially produce? He is already on pace for 100 points this season without Vanek.

From a numbers standpoint I don't like the trade. You can talk about "talent" all you want, but to me it comes down to offensive production. Moulson was great in his role and I don't see Vanek improving much on Moulson's numbers.

I think there may be some really good UFAs available at the deadline looking at some of the contracts that are expiring, that could probably be obtained for a 1st/2nd round pick. Replacing a winger like Bouchard with say, Cammalleri, would result in a higher offensive improvement than Moulson vs. Vanek, IMO.

[19Yzerman19]

Originally Posted by Thomas Vanek

We traded pretty much every veteran ... The message was clear that they’re going for draft picks. I think our last game we played four teenagers. Good, young players, but young players take time. I enjoyed my time there, but I didn’t want to be a part of that ... You train all summer long, practice every day and you want to be on a competitive team that has a chance and right now we struggled there. It’s hard to leave when you do struggle. I was one of the leaders, but at the same time the reality it’s business and I’m happy to be an Islander.

Pretty blunt.