Lebrun: Oilers among eight teams on miller's no-trade list

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

That's simply not true. I've seen several player polls of most desirable cities to play in, and there's not much movement in the rankings. And again, back when the Flames had made the playoffs 5 years in a row and Iginla was still a marquee player Calgary was ranked 19th in desirability.

Link please, and what ranking were the Flames in the standings? Playoffs (16/20 teams) where we were scraping to get in, and we place pretty much where (19) playoff teams are at. Shocking.

Was Edmonton equally as undesirable in the 80's as now?

[spuzzum]

Several people have mentioned the proverb: To each his own. Very true.

In my opinion having lived in Edmonton for 2+ years, it is an absolutely dump. I'd use other words but then my account would be disabled.

[Red John]

Funny seeing the city vs oilers debates.

Why can't the answer be both? The city sucks and the organization is a joke. That's a bad combination.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Montreal and Ottawa like Toronto get real springs. They actually have green grass in March unlike Calgary where things get green in May. In the peak of winter things are pretty close between all the cities but winter generally starts earlier and ends later in Calgary. Trust me you get a lot more use out of your lawnmower out east.

I was simply saying that Calgary is not as bad as Edmonton or Winnipeg.

No Question, Edmonton & Winnipeg have are at the bottom.

But I think Montreal, Toronto, Ottawa, Calgary, Buffalo, and Minneapolis, are all pretty close. I Certainly Doubt any of those cities have much better climates than Calgary.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Link please, and what ranking were the Flames in the standings? Playoffs (16/20 teams) where we were scraping to get in, and we place pretty much where (19) playoff teams are at. Shocking.

Was Edmonton equally as undesirable in the 80's as now?

The Hockey News doesn't post 5-year-old polls on the internet. I suppose you'll have to trust me that there wasn't much correlation between the team's place in the standings and the desirability as a place to play.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The Hockey News doesn't post 5-year-old polls on the internet. I suppose you'll have to trust me that there wasn't much correlation between the team's place in the standings and the desirability as a place to play.

Ok, well what place were the Flames standings in the past 5 years?

[Flash Walken]

Is it really that hard to believe that a Canadian city covered in snow the majority of the year is a less attractive destination than an urban American metropolis that is or isn't?

We all love Calgary, but there is no shame in admitting it simply doesn't have as much to offer as some other places like St.Louis, which has been destinations for NHL players for years, regardless of the competitiveness of their franchise.

This isn't really a headscratcher. Seems like an odd issue to stake a claim on, considering there is precious little evidence to the contrary.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Ok, well what place were the Flames standings in the past 5 years?

In the 2008-2009 season (when IIRC the poll was published), the Flames finished 2nd in the NW, and were in their fifth straight season as a playoff team.

And you're still ignoring the spousal factor. If fans out there think Pronger's or Luongo's wives are unique, they're kidding themselves. This isn't 1983, when a hockey wife would just do as she's told and follow along wherever the husband wants.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

That's simply not true. I've seen several player polls of most desirable cities to play in, and there's not much movement in the rankings...

Even if certain cities outrank others in terms of "desirability", this probably does not factor very highly into tangible results when it comes to attracting and keeping players. I suspect that there are probably five or six true marquee NHL cities, but virtually all of those ranked in the 7–25 range I would expect are so close to one another in popularity so as to make any comparison between them negligible. In other words, the difference between ranking 11 and 18 is likely not significant.

Besides, the point you are missing here that Phanuthier is making is that regardless of how the cities are ranked according to a poll of the players, at the end of the day their decisions about where to play will be made on the priority of other factors almost every time.

[Magnum PEI]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Umm no. It's because we still have snow on the ground in April while out east they stop getting snow in March.

And lets be realistic here in that Ottawa and Montreal are also likely on Miller's list as well the list of a lot of other players list of places they don't want to play.

Usually the snow is gone by mid March. There are snowstorms afterwards, but Ontario is prone to spring snowstorms too. Calgary is just way drier, most of the grass is brown by September. My family is from Billings, which rarely has snow cover and is equally brown.

[19Yzerman19]

Trading for Ryan Miller would be the dumbest move by this organization yet. They aren't this stupid. They can't be.

[zukes]

Originally Posted by Magnum PEI

Usually the snow is gone by mid March. There are snowstorms afterwards, but Ontario is prone to spring snowstorms too. Calgary is just way drier, most of the grass is brown by September. My family is from Billings, which rarely has snow cover and is equally brown.

Toronto and buffalo the only snow after the start if march is a dusting. A storm can happen but it's rare. The area is prone to wild swings of weather, from a couple degrees to the high 20's from mid march through April. In fact the last two weeks seem to always be nicer than the first two of April. Winter is much shorter here than in Calgary.

I will say though, I'd take -15 in Calgary over -8 here because of the dryness there. -8 and humid is bone chilling.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Even if certain cities outrank others in terms of "desirability", this probably does not factor very highly into tangible results when it comes to attracting and keeping players. I suspect that there are probably five or six true marquee NHL cities, but virtually all of those ranked in the 7–25 range I would expect are so close to one another in popularity so as to make any comparison between them negligible. In other words, the difference between ranking 11 and 18 is likely not significant.

Besides, the point you are missing here that Phanuthier is making is that regardless of how the cities are ranked according to a poll of the players, at the end of the day their decisions about where to play will be made on the priority of other factors almost every time.

Exactly

That, and I don't think all American cities are that great. I don't get the small penis syndrome. And I live in San Jose area, though I grew up in Calgary. Whoever said you don't know the city till you live there is 100% correct... living in SJ (and spending a lot of time in Santa Monica)... I don't think these area's are that great.

At the end of the day, 99% of the decision will come down to the team (see: Winning), culture of work (see: fun, not the country club mentality the Flames had that was obvious even when they were 2nd in the NW, which I believe was 6th place out of 8 in the West) and family/friends.

Take 2 cities I have zero affiliation with, Denver or St Louis. Where would I rather live? Denver. Snow doesn't faze me. And I work in a cubical farm, not an athlete that participates in a winter sport.

Again, tell me in the 1980's, who would you rather play for? LA or Edmonton? Would you pick playing with Wayne Gretzky... or not having snow? The answer is really obvious.

[albertGQ]

1989 is in the 80's. so I pick LA!

I can play with Wayne Gretzky and not have snow!

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Exactly

That, and I don't think all American cities are that great. I don't get the small penis syndrome. And I live in San Jose area, though I grew up in Calgary. Whoever said you don't know the city till you live there is 100% correct... living in SJ (and spending a lot of time in Santa Monica)... I don't think these area's are that great.

At the end of the day, 99% of the decision will come down to the team (see: Winning), culture of work (see: fun, not the country club mentality the Flames had that was obvious even when they were 2nd in the NW, which I believe was 6th place out of 8 in the West) and family/friends.

Take 2 cities I have zero affiliation with, Denver or St Louis. Where would I rather live? Denver. Snow doesn't faze me. And I work in a cubical farm, not an athlete that participates in a winter sport.

Again, tell me in the 1980's, who would you rather play for? LA or Edmonton? Would you pick playing with Wayne Gretzky... or not having snow? The answer is really obvious.

And that's fine, but quite frankly, a guy who works in a cubicle farm in silicon valley and makes a takes home some nice money isn't a superstar millionaire professional sport celebrity.

There's guys who prefer to play close to home, there are guys who like the sun, there are guys who are in it for the money and there are guys who only care about winning. You know this, I know this. The common denominator though, I think, is a comfortable living situation away from the game. For some that means one thing, for others something else. The quality of the Franchise will be a determining factor, but I think these days there is a pretty solid standard for athlete investment from ownership. One reason why Edmonton might be the most unattractive place is probably the perception of management.

GENERALLY, though these guys are not making these decisions solely for themselves. Brad Richards said he wanted to play in the east so his grandpa could watch his games at a reasonable hour. That might be a big puff of smoke, but it also gives some insight. Luongo's wife lives in Florida. He's been a Canuck for years, and lives away from his family most of the year. Ryan Miller's wife lives in California, same deal. Brad Stuart signed in San Jose because of his family. Mike Fisher forced a trade to Nashville because that's where his wife is from. Danny Briere was only going to play in two places this year, around New Jersey or Montreal, because of his family.

Unless you're from Alberta, it's unlikely you have any reason to want to play here. It's a great city, with a unique charm, but it's simply not a Philadelphia, Denver, Columbus, St. Louis or Dallas, and that's ok.

[moon]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The Hockey News doesn't post 5-year-old polls on the internet. I suppose you'll have to trust me that there wasn't much correlation between the team's place in the standings and the desirability as a place to play.

Was this the poll that said not considering hockey standing where would you play?

I know I did see a poll or two that have taken the sports element out and asked athletes just where they wanted to live based on the city/area.

I don't really understand athletes that would avoid Calgary or even Edmonton based on the weather and yet choose a midwestern or any other city in Canada. The weather certainly isn't any better in those places and certainly not good enough (in my view) to affect whether you live there or not.

I can understand why hockey players would want to avoid the fishbowl of Canadian cities, the weather of a Phoenix/Callifornia/Florida team or the big city appeal of Toronto, NY, LA. But choosing say St. Louis, Colombus, Detroit for example over Calgary would make little sense to me.

[Flash Walken]

I believe this is the poll Cliff is referring to.

Originally Posted by fanforever1986

If you could play for any NHL team (other than your own), which would you choose?
1) Toronto Maple Leafs (34) 14.4%
2) New York Rangers (29) 12.3%
3) Detroit Red Wings (19) 8%
4) Los Angeles Kings and Vancouver Canucks (18) 7.6%
5) Dallas Stars (15) 6.3%
6) Colorado Avalanche and Montreal Canadiens (14) 5.9%
7) Minnesota Wild and Tampa Bay Lightning (10) 4.2%
8) Phoenix Coyotes (9) 3.8%
9) Calgary Flames (8) 3.4%
10) Anaheim Ducks and Florida Panthers (5) 2.1%
11) Nashville Predators, Ottawa Senators and Pittsburgh Penguins (4) 1.7%
12) Chicago Blackhawks, Philadelphia Flyers and San Jose Sharks (3) 1.2%
13) Boston Bruins and Buffalo Sabres (2) 0.85%
14) Carolina Hurricane and Edmonton Oilers (1) 0.42%

To what city would you least like to be traded?
1) Buffalo Sabres (40) 16%
2) Edmonton Oilers (28) 11.2%
3) New York Islanders (24) 9.6%
4) Pittsburgh Penguins (18) 7.2%
5) Florida Panthers (17) 6.8%
6) Carolina Hurricanes and St. Louis Blues (13) 5.2%
7) Washington Capitals (12) 4.8%
8) New Jersey Devils and New York Rangers (9) 3.6%
9) Columbus Blue Jackets and Montreal Canadiens (8) 3.2%
10) Calgary Flames (7) 2.8%
11) Chicago Blackhawks and Detroit Red Wings (6) 2.4%
12) Nashville Predators (5) 2%
13) Los Angeles Kings and Ottawa Senators (4) 1.6%
14) Philadelphia Flyers and Phoenix Coyotes (3) 1.2%
15) Atlanta Thrashers, Minnesota Wild, San Jose Sharks and Toronto Maple Leafs (2) 0.8%
16) Anaheim Ducks, Colorado Avalanche, Dallas Stars and Tampa Bay Lightning (1) 0.4%


ouch.

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=40239

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by fanforever1986
If you could play for any NHL team (other than your own), which would you choose?
1) Toronto Maple Leafs (34) 14.4%
2) New York Rangers (29) 12.3%
3) Detroit Red Wings (19) 8%
4) Los Angeles Kings and Vancouver Canucks (18) 7.6%
5) Dallas Stars (15) 6.3%
6) Colorado Avalanche and Montreal Canadiens (14) 5.9%
7) Minnesota Wild and Tampa Bay Lightning (10) 4.2%
8) Phoenix Coyotes (9) 3.8%
9) Calgary Flames (8) 3.4%
10) Anaheim Ducks and Florida Panthers (5) 2.1%
11) Nashville Predators, Ottawa Senators and Pittsburgh Penguins (4) 1.7%
12) Chicago Blackhawks, Philadelphia Flyers and San Jose Sharks (3) 1.2%
13) Boston Bruins and Buffalo Sabres (2) 0.85%
14) Carolina Hurricane and Edmonton Oilers (1) 0.42%

To what city would you least like to be traded?
1) Buffalo Sabres (40) 16%
2) Edmonton Oilers (28) 11.2%
3) New York Islanders (24) 9.6%
4) Pittsburgh Penguins (18) 7.2%
5) Florida Panthers (17) 6.8%
6) Carolina Hurricanes and St. Louis Blues (13) 5.2%
7) Washington Capitals (12) 4.8%
8) New Jersey Devils and New York Rangers (9) 3.6%
9) Columbus Blue Jackets and Montreal Canadiens (8) 3.2%
10) Calgary Flames (7) 2.8%
11) Chicago Blackhawks and Detroit Red Wings (6) 2.4%
12) Nashville Predators (5) 2%
13) Los Angeles Kings and Ottawa Senators (4) 1.6%
14) Philadelphia Flyers and Phoenix Coyotes (3) 1.2%
15) Atlanta Thrashers, Minnesota Wild, San Jose Sharks and Toronto Maple Leafs (2) 0.8%
16) Anaheim Ducks, Colorado Avalanche, Dallas Stars and Tampa Bay Lightning (1) 0.4%


^^^^ LOL, is this the whole argument being made? So we're both 10th most desirable place to play, not 19th. We are just 10th on the NTC too (2.8%)... and the great city of St Louis is 5.2% and the Carolina/Florida at 5% too.

Nice argument, guys.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

And that's fine, but quite frankly, a guy who works in a cubicle farm in silicon valley and makes a takes home some nice money isn't a superstar millionaire professional sport celebrity.

Is this your argument that I can't choose a nice sunny destination to work?

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

GENERALLY, though these guys are not making these decisions solely for themselves. Brad Richards said he wanted to play in the east so his grandpa could watch his games at a reasonable hour. That might be a big puff of smoke, but it also gives some insight. Luongo's wife lives in Florida. He's been a Canuck for years, and lives away from his family most of the year. Ryan Miller's wife lives in California, same deal. Brad Stuart signed in San Jose because of his family. Mike Fisher forced a trade to Nashville because that's where his wife is from. Danny Briere was only going to play in two places this year, around New Jersey or Montreal, because of his family.

Unless you're from Alberta, it's unlikely you have any reason to want to play here. It's a great city, with a unique charm, but it's simply not a Philadelphia, Denver, Columbus, St. Louis or Dallas, and that's ok.

So what you are telling me, is, family plays a major decision more then weather/greatness of city then?

.... aren't you proving me right? Team (winning/culture), family/friends are usually the main factor. For a few people... shopping.

(PS : I had the option of being transferred to Dallas or New Hampshire... I declined, would rather stay in Calif. If they would have gave me the option of Denver, I'd take that though. So of your list, I did have options of 2 of those places.)