[News] Flames send 4 more packing

[TheDebaser]

Originally Posted by c.t.ner

Not sure I'm buying into this Baertschi on the chopping block, seems to me like more of a kick in the pants tactic than anything.

Not sure you send Backlund and Baertschi to act as flames ambassadors at a marketing event and then send him down to the minors three days later.

That's probably exactly what this is.

[MissTeeks]

Pat Steinberg‏@Fan960Steinberg2m

#Flames GM Jay Feaster joins The Big Show at 4 pm this afternoon.

[Machiavelli]

On Baertschi:

Baertschi, usually the most talkative, personable guy you’d ever went to meet, bristled slightly when asked if he felt this camp had been a struggle.

“No. Not at all. You can’t tell if it’s a struggle, especially from outside. I feel good. I feel comfortable. But you can always improve, right? I played sick against Edmonton. That was my best game so far this pre-season. Playing with (Jiri) Hudler and (T.J.) Galiardi was exciting. I was happy. I couldn’t really keep it up on the same level but at the same time I was still making plays, still performing, three nice assists three games in a row.

“I take that as a positive thing.”

“He’s putting a lot of pressure on himself,” said assistant to the general manager Craig Conroy. “We’ve talked to Sven, told him ‘Hey, do what you do. Have fun. Smile.’ For a while there, at the Penticton tournament he seemed . . . he just wasn’t in a good place. He didn’t seem to be enjoying himself. The weight of the world seemed to be on his shoulders.

“When he’s at his best, he’s playing with speed, moving his feet, making plays. At the beginning of camp, I felt like he was standing around a little bit, watching. But people have piled a ton of pressure on Sven, saying he’s going to be this and that, he’s going to be the next Jarome."

http://www.calgaryherald.com/sports/...649/story.html

Oops, already posted a few minutes ago.

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by StrykerSteve

Here's to another season of having more interest in the Heat than the Flames.

edit - Sorry, I'm just a little annoyed that they are going with a roster similar to the one we were forced to endure last year.

You're not forced to endure anything. You have a choice to watch, or not to watch. I choose to watch.

Here are players on the opening day roster from last year who aren't with the opening day roster from this year:
Steve Begin, Jay Bouwmeester, Blake Comeau, Jarome Iginla, Cory Sarich, Alex Tanguay, Miikka Kiprusoff, Leland Irving

Here are players that were acquired between the end of last year and now that have a good chance of being on the roster:
Sean Monahan, TJ Galiardi, Karri Ramo, Reto Berra, Shane O'Brien, Corban Knight, David Jones, Kris Russell

So basically the list of players that were with the team for the majority of last year who are opening this year are:
Glencross, Stajan, Stempniak, Cammalleri, Backlund, Hudler, Baertschi, Giordano, Brodie, Wideman, Butler and Smith

Only half of the players who will make the opening day roster were a big part of last year. We are also getting to see Bouma, Horak, and a few others move up to the NHL level.

[Ashasx]

It's hard for me to get excited if the only rookie we're going to have on a rebuilding team is Monahan.

I'd rather be young and lose (with a handful of vets like Glencross, Gio, Cammalleri, etc.) than old and lose.

[FlameZilla]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Fans need to see a youth movement. We need more than Monahan on the team.

Again, if Baertschi isn't on the final roster, I will not be happy. Veterans that have no long term plans with this team can go.

In my opinion Hudler is the player surplus to requirements, but the trade return will be minimum with that hefty contract he signed last year. Being a Feaster recruit, there's no way he capitulates & trades him.

As has been said, if Sven isn't getting top-6 minutes then he may as well go to Abbotsford. With Cammy & Hudler returning to the mix I think he's the odd man out. Glenncross, Stempniak, Cammy & Hudler are ahead of him for those spots.

I would definitely rather see Sven stay in the NHL despite his poor preseason. He could turn it on & get on a streak once the real quiz begins. However I think he may be in for a demotion (and these multiple twitter reports etc seem to be thinking the same).

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

On Baertschi:






http://www.calgaryherald.com/sports/...649/story.html

Oops, already posted a few minutes ago.

His quote about playing with Hudler and TJ, being exciting concerns me a little bit. Sounds like he's pretty jazzed to play with NHL vets (which is understandable), but it also raises the question as to why he associated his good play that game with playing with those guys. Who were his line mates in other games? Does he not feel excited to play with whoever he's put with, it's it too hard for him to play well if he doesn't have vets on his line up?

Everytime I hear Sven speak recently I get the impression if he's not doing well, he feels its because he hasn't been put in the right position to do well by the Flames. Don't really like how defensive he seems to already become this early in his career. As boring as it would be, I'd much rather hear some standard answers from him about keeping his head down, working hard and trying to get better everyday.

[Ashasx]

Personally, Hudler is a player I would have bought out during the summer.

[djsFlames]

We are in a rebuild. Our youth are going to have ups and downs. You could call this Sven's sophomore season to some extent, and that tends to be the roughest season for emerging players. But it's still a rebuild. You don't dress ALL NHL vets except for one defenseman (unless they keep a couple on the 3-4th lines) and continue to call it a rebuild. That's nothing but a rehash of the approach they've been making for the past 5 years.

You can punish Sven with less minutes or the occasional sit in the press box, but you don't demote him. That's not a step backwards for him, it's a step backwards for the team. We need to be working towards a point where we have an equal mix of vets and youngsters. Need to take a step in that direction this season and continue to infuse the youth, whether there are individual struggles or not. He's still our most proven prospect. Has got to stay.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Just playing devil's advocate but how many prospects will become bitter if Baertschi is given a pass over the meritocracy the Flames have been preaching to them?

Originally Posted by Drury18

Why should he get preferential treatment? His draft position?

If you aren't playing at an NHL level, you shouldn't be with the NHL club. Simple as that. If he chooses to have a poor attitude about that and towards the Flames, that's his problem and speaks volumes to his professionalism. Perhaps it's better to get that out in the open now before we sign the kid for millions.

I don't think he has been as bad as people are saying though. There is a difference between being bad, and not being as good as everybody expects you to be.

Sven has been a victim of his own expectations this training camp. He has shown flashes of that skill, he hasn't looked out of place, and overall he has been alright. However when people are expecting you to be great, alright isn't really good enough.

His consistency and effort have left something to be desired but when it comes down to it he has still be decent.

I don't think any of the other forwards have really outperformed Sven. Knight, Ferland, Jooris, Granlund, Horak, Street etc had alright camps but did they really do enough to supplant Sven? No, I really don't think they did and they have more to gain from getting some games in the AHL then Sven does.

I think that sending Sven down now would be punishing him for not living up to expectations of him, and wouldn't really have anything to do with other people outperforming him.

[FlameZilla]

Interesting that some people think the Flames are rushing Monahan onto the big team (despite the fact that he's had a very good preseason & fills a huge organisational need) but are up in arms about the possibility that Baertschi may be sent down to hone his game.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I'd rather be young and lose (with a handful of vets like Glencross, Gio, Cammalleri, etc.) than old and lose.

Most of the young guys aren't ready yet. You simply can't ice a team that will lose 6-1 every night just to play young prospects.

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Personally, Hudler is a player I would have bought out during the summer.

Very strange. He's supposedly a good guy in the locker room, has good skill and will likely score 20+ goals. His salary is manageable on a team that won't spend near the ceiling anyway. If the Flames bought him out they would be commiting to finishing 30th and telling fans not to bother coming out.

[TheDebaser]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Personally, Hudler is a player I would have bought out during the summer.

Buying out assets is terrible asset management. Let some of our guys grow in abbortsford, trade assets at the deadline and then go forward with a younger team. Don't just throw away assets like Hudler who could easily net us a second or third rounder.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Personally, Hudler is a player I would have bought out during the summer.

Why?

He was the best of our smallish forwards (Tanguay, Cammy, Hudler, Baertschi, Cervenka) last season IMO and is also the youngest of the bunch.

With Tanguay/Cervenka gone, and Stajan/Stempniak/Cammy unlikely to re-sign (IMO), you just would have been wasting a buyout on a guy when you are going to need lots of replacements next off-season anyways.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I don't think he has been as bad as people are saying though. There is a difference between being bad, and not being as good as everybody expects you to be.

Sven has been a victim of his own expectations this training camp. He has shown flashes of that skill, he hasn't looked out of place, and overall he has been alright. However when people are expecting you to be great, alright isn't really good enough.

His consistency and effort have left something to be desired but when it comes down to it he has still be decent.

I don't think any of the other forwards have really outperformed Sven. Knight, Ferland, Jooris, Granlund, Horak, Street etc had alright camps but did they really do enough to supplant Sven? No, I really don't think they did and they have more to gain from getting some games in the AHL then Sven does.

I think that sending Sven down now would be punishing him for not living up to expectations of him, and wouldn't really have anything to do with other people outperforming him.

It doesn't sound like Sven has been a victim of his own expectations, it sounds like the Flames feel he'd been a victim of his own attitude and effort.

And that's likely the key from the Flames perspective. Sven is likely still in the mix if what Feaster says is true because of his great talent that allows him to still be pretty decent (as you described) him despite not putting forth the consistent effort or attitude they'd want. Problem is, if he's not "meeting" the lofty expecations due to attitude or effort, there likely isn't much the Flames can do to fix that other than to be firm and hard handed. Coddling him won't fix an effort or attitude problem, and fixing any issues that MAY exsist in that area now is actually the best thing for team and player long term.

[c.t.ner]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I think that sending Sven down now would be punishing him for not living up to expectations of him, and wouldn't really have anything to do with other people outperforming him.

To me it seems like sending Sven down to the AHL is a pretty drastic, drastic move. Wouldn't it make more sense to see him in a couple of full games and then sit him for a game, rather than go to the extreme of demoting him at the beginning of the season.

Seems to me sending him to the AHL is sort like sending your kid to Boarding school when he gets his first 'C-'...

[Ashasx]

I don't believe Hudler is a tradeable asset with his contract, that's all. He's not young either.

I just think he's taking away minutes from younger players, and he's really only proven to be a 40-50 point player during his career.

He is the most replaceable when compared to our other veterans.

[BigFlameDog]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

I think a lot of folks have forgotten how young and what kind of potential Roman Horak is/has.

I am guilty of forgetting how young he is for sure....just seems like he should be older.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by c.t.ner

To me it seems like sending Sven down to the AHL is a pretty drastic, drastic move. Wouldn't it make more sense to see him in a couple of full games and then sit him for a game, rather than go to the extreme of demoting him at the beginning of the season.

Seems to me sending him to the AHL is sort like sending your kid to Boarding school when he gets his first 'C-'...

Depends what the problem is. Different reasons for "C-" require different solutions.

- If he's getting a C cause he doesn't understand it well enough - get him a tutor (press box, learn of the the vets)

- If he's slacking off and not applying himself - get him to do something he hates / go to boarding school until attitude improves (send him to the Heat).

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Depends what the problem is. Different reasons for "C-" require different solutions.

- If he's getting a C cause he doesn't understand it well enough - get him a tutor (press box, learn of the the vets)

- If he's slacking off and not applying himself - get him to do something he hates / go to boarding school until attitude improves (send him to the Heat).

I really don't want Ward coaching Baertschi. He's done nothing but kill the confidence of every forward he's coached.