Our preseason goaltending situation

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I think MacDonald needs to be here for the stability factor.

Everyone else will get their chance though.

What stability factor? the guy was a waiver wire pickup half way thru a shortened season. Cut him if he's no good.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by FlamesAllTheWay

Like it or not, over the past 5 years MacDonalds the only proven NHL goalie we have. At the very least he can hopefully help with the development/transition of Ramo and Berra. At best he might become a tradeable commodity, as you said.

He is not a proven NHL goalie though. He is 33 years and has 12 pro seasons. In those 12 seasons, he only has 122 NHL appearances and a GAA above 3.00 (a good portion of his games were for a power house Wings team as well). Even in the AHL, he was usually backing up. Only once since 2005 did he play more than half of his teams games (49 for the Islanders in 2008).

MacDonald is an AHL goalie who gets the occasional call-up. While Ramo's past NHL results were not great, they were when he was 20-22 years old. Most goalies aren't great at that age.

[heep223]

The fact that Feaster gave last night's start to Ramo and Wednesday night's start to Berra, combined with his comment that "Joey Macdonald had two starts and played ok" (against non-nhl lineups/early preseason games), is telling.

He probably views Macdonald as an insurance policy but will stick to his guns barring a total breakdown from the euros.

Good to see that this team is going to be taking this rebuild seriously and not using the wrinkled vets as a crutch (really hope I don't eat those words). Playing Mac D in no ways helps this team.....having him around the other goalies to help them adjust does help the team.

[TheGrimm]

I think this is a year where we don't really need that stable backup goaltender like we did in the past. It's not like we are going to be contending for a playoff spot, so why not give the reps to guys like Ramo and Berra. All that Macdonald is doing is eating experience for these guys.

Feaster said he is NOT going to carry three goaltenders. I say send Macdonald to ABB and if we lose him we lose him.

It's going to be rough to watch at times, but at least we can see what these kids are made of.

[FlamesAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by TheDebaser

It's not entirely like that. They've seen the three play in camp. If Berra and Ramo are both hands down better goalies in camp it's not like they'll show up to a game and forget how to play hockey.

Agreed. From what I've heard Berra has looked good and I got a chance to see Ramo last night and he did as well. MacDonald so-so.

Not saying this will happen, but remember that 04 kipper had very little nhl experience when he came over too. Hell, no one on the planet has nhl experience until they start playing in the nhl. It's not as important as you make it seem. We should go with our two best goalies, this just makes sense to me.

For Ramo and Berra I'm not so much concerned with prior NHL experience (or lack thereof). Obviously every NHL'er started at 0 games played at some point. I'm more so focusing on that we've only had a few pre-season games to get a small glimpse of what we might have in both guys at the NHL level at this point.

10 games into the regular season when Ramo's probably started 7 or so of them we'll have a better idea of exactly where he's at. Same goes for Berra when he gets his shot, as I'm sure he will at some point this year. We already know what we have in MacDonald. That's all I'm saying.

[Poe969]

In all honesty, does anyone think that if MacDonald was put on waivers, someone would claim him?? I don't really even see the pens taking a chance on him. I'm 100% for giving any of the younger goalies in our system a chance over him. With MacDonald we know what we're getting....meh.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by Poe969

In all honesty, does anyone think that if MacDonald was put on waivers, someone would claim him?? I don't really even see the pens taking a chance on him. I'm 100% for giving any of the younger goalies in our system a chance over him. With MacDonald we know what we're getting....meh.

Considering the talent out there in the goaltending market right now, I'd say it's a big fat zero. I think a lot of people forget that while McDonald played decent for us down the stretch last year, he's still a third string guy. At BEST he could handle the backup role, but no, I don't think people are going to be clamouring to claim him off waivers. If they do, good for them?

[Cali Panthers Fan]

To me, if you only have preseason to base it on, Ramo has earned the 1A status, but by no means is it safe. McDonald hasn't been very impressive, but has also been more consistent than Berra or Ramo, giving him the inside track as the backup. You always want a more reliable option than an unknown option for the backup. Consistency is the name of that position. Berra had one good 30 minute session and a lackluster follow up performance. We will know for sure after the next game that Berra gets where he fits in this year. If he bounces back and really impresses you will probably see him as the 1B option. If not, he'll go down to Abby and split time with Ortio, but possibly still get called up at some point in the season.

Unless Berra is really not up to par in the next game, this is how I see it this year:

Ramo 1A-60% of the games
Berra 1B-40% of the games
MacDonald-demoted to Abbotsford after clearing waivers. Insurance option.
Ortio #1 in Abbotsford.

[FlamesAddiction]

Signing MacDonald reminds me of when we signed Kay Whitmore to help out the young golaies on the farm. I'm all for that, but he shouldn't see any NHL time barring injuries.

[_Q_]

I think playing Berra as the backup will only hinder his development. Let the guy play 60% of the games in Abbotsford and let him learn the North American game.

Ramo and McDonald can do a 1A/1B sort of thing where they split the games say 50/32 or so. If McDonald proves himself capable in that situation, surely there will be teams willing to give us something either at the deadline or in the offseason via trade.

Bring Berra in next year or at the end of this season and let him and Ramo continue the 1A/1B situation until one of them proves they are a bonafide #1 goalie.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by TheDebaser

It's not entirely like that. They've seen the three play in camp. If Berra and Ramo are both hands down better goalies in camp it's not like they'll show up to a game and forget how to play hockey.

No, but there is a world of difference between playing pre-season games and starting a NHL regular season game. I am cautiously optimistic about both Ramo and Berra, but am also not confident that either will simply hit the ground running in October.

Originally Posted by TheDebaser

Not saying this will happen, but remember that 04 kipper had very little nhl experience when he came over too. Hell, no one on the planet has nhl experience until they start playing in the nhl.

And Kiprusoff spent a full five years slowly adjusting to the North American game before he was finally established as a NHL starter. HE showed flashes of brilliance in fits and starts in his time in SJ, but also went through periods in which it looked as if he would never pan out. If you will recall, the reason he was available for trade in exchange for a 2nd round pick was because he did not play well in his last season in SJ, and he lost his starting job to another up-and-comer, Vesa Toskala. You will also recall that his success only came after a long break from any professional starts between 20 March 2003 (following four straight losses and 2-8 in his last 10 games) in SJ, and 20 November 2004 in Calgary.

Both the Europeans will take time, and they will probably both look REAL BAD at points in the season. Having a journeyman like MacDonald still in the system is not at all a bad idea for relieving some of the pressure when the other two are off of their game.

Originally Posted by TheDebaser

It's not as important as you make it seem. We should go with our two best goalies, this just makes sense to me.

Of course this is what the Flames should—and will—do, but I think it would be a big mistake to not have a contingency in place for when (not "if") both Ramo and Berra are struggling.

[TheGrimm]

Originally Posted by _Q_

I think playing Berra as the backup will only hinder his development. Let the guy play 60% of the games in Abbotsford and let him learn the North American game.

Ramo and McDonald can do a 1A/1B sort of thing where they split the games say 50/32 or so. If McDonald proves himself capable in that situation, surely there will be teams willing to give us something either at the deadline or in the offseason via trade.

Bring Berra in next year or at the end of this season and let him and Ramo continue the 1A/1B situation until one of them proves they are a bonafide #1 goalie.

I might agree if we didn't already have 2 goalies in Abbotsford that could use those reps. If you look at it this way, we have 5 goalies and realistically 4 positions available. I personally believe for the benefit of the future of this franchise the odd man out has to be Macdonald.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Disagree...after listening to Feaster and seeing the rotation this far, I have to believe that the order is

Ramo
Berra
MacDonald

At least to start the season.

I have a feeling this rotation is going to change throughout the season unless one of the goaltenders takes the job and runs with it which remains to be seen. Slightly disappointed that MacDonald didn't try to get into the best shape of his career with what has to be his last opportunity to be an NHL starter staring him in the face. I believe we have our answer to why he is who he is at this stage of his career.

[FlamesAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

MacDonald is an AHL goalie who gets the occasional call-up. While Ramo's past NHL results were not great, they were when he was 20-22 years old. Most goalies aren't great at that age.

I'm actually not too concerned with Ramo's numbers from 5 years ago (devils advocate ) as lots can change between then and now and, as you said, he was young. And I agree MacDonald's nothing special as far as an NHL calibre goalie goes.

Anyways, Ramo will be our starter to begin the year. What exactly that means is still up in the air though as it would unrealistic to expect him to play the 70+ games Kipper used to do for us. I look at a guy like Viktor Fasth who made a quick transition and was great last year. But he also had Hiller there to eat up half the games, which I'm sure helped alot.

Maybe for us this year that guy is Berra? Maybe not, and if he isn't quite ready to play at an NHL level it's not really fair to throw him into the mix anyways. Especially while we're in full on rebuild mode and don't have to. So maybe Ramo plays 50+ games, MacDonald eats up a big chunk of the remainder and we see Berra later on. Or maybe things go smoothly and Berra steps in sooner and MacDonald is back on the waiver wire or becomes trade bait. Or maybe Ramo isn't up to snuff either?

It's alot of "what ifs" I know. Ultimately I would love to see a Ramo Berra tandem but if it doesn't happen right away at least there is a third option there for the time being. I'm just a little wary of cutting MacDonald loose too quickly if we don't have to, just incase things don't exactly pan out the way we would like. We have time to evaluate and re-evaluate as the season progresses as well as gradually introduce (re-introduce) one or both to the NHL if need be.

I also liked the sounds of what he brought to the dressing room last year. Also that it could be an asset for Ramo and Berra to at least have someone around who has that recent NHL experience in goal.

[FakenHaken]

I thought it was already agreed by the CP masses Ramo/Berra are merely a bridge to Gillies in a couple years?

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by _Q_

I think playing Berra as the backup will only hinder his development. Let the guy play 60% of the games in Abbotsford and let him learn the North American game.

Ramo and McDonald can do a 1A/1B sort of thing where they split the games say 50/32 or so. If McDonald proves himself capable in that situation, surely there will be teams willing to give us something either at the deadline or in the offseason via trade.

Bring Berra in next year or at the end of this season and let him and Ramo continue the 1A/1B situation until one of them proves they are a bonafide #1 goalie.

I think we'll want Ortio to be our AHL starter to hopefully build some confidence and solidify himself as a pro goalie. MacD as the AHL backup should be fine, hopefully he can mentor the other goalies on the farm.

Berra being the 1b behind Ramo wouldn't hinder his development as you wouldn't say the same for someone like Jonathan Bernier back in L.A

[kyuss275]

Big night for Berra on Wednesday. If he plays well i think he gets the back-up job. I actualy think Pitt would claim MacDonald if he is put on waivers. Don't think that is a bad thing either. That would give Ortio many many games down with the Heat.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by FakenHaken

I thought it was already agreed by the CP masses Ramo/Berra are merely a bridge to Gillies in a couple years?

If there is one thing I have learned over the years is that it is almost impossible to annoint a goalie of the future before they have played a game in the NHL. You just can't count on such predictions enough that it should influence how you develop your goalies of the present.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

I think we'll want Ortio to be our AHL starter to hopefully build some confidence and solidify himself as a pro goalie. MacD as the AHL backup should be fine, hopefully he can mentor the other goalies on the farm.

Berra being the 1b behind Ramo wouldn't hinder his development as you wouldn't say the same for someone like Jonathan Bernier back in L.A

Ortio is still 22. Goalies take forever to develop. In reality, he won't be ready to play in the NHL for another 3-4 years if ever. A season of him playing back-up in the AHL won't be bad for his development.

I also don't envision him being a true back-up that rarely plays any games. He'll probably play as the 1B goalie in Abbotsford while Berra gets the 1A role.

[FakenHaken]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

If there is one thing I have learned over the years is that it is almost impossible to annoint a goalie of the future before they have played a game in the NHL. You just can't count on such predictions enough that it should influence how you develop your goalies of the present.

Exactly, been there seen that movie before starring Trevor Kidd. Although excited for better drafting or lucky drafting maybe a bit of column a and b. What is also part of the process is development. Not just of the goalies but top to bottom forwards, defence included.

Personally, I feel let these two Ramo/Berra run with it... You win you got next game type of thing. Worry about the Gillies bridge when you actually have to cross it if you even have to cross it.