Training Camp Predictions & Discussion

[Super-Rye]

I predict John Ramage makes the Flames out of camp and forces management to move one of the top 6 d-men.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by New Era

How can you judge what type of game Knight plays? He hasn't suited up for the Flames outside of the young stars games and he was underwhelming in his performance there. Wasn't physical, wasn't great in the dot and didn't do a helluva lot to lead me to believe he's a NHL player right now.

By watching him...

He actually was fairly physical, especially on the forecheck. And he actually played fairly well for the most part IMO, despite some people on these boards thinking he lacked offensive flair. He is also bigger and stronger than Horak.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

By watching him...

He actually was fairly physical, especially on the forecheck. And he actually played fairly well for the most part IMO, despite some people on these boards thinking he lacked offensive flair. He is also bigger and stronger than Horak.

Didn't see that at all. I was very disappointed with his Knight's play and thought he was weak in every aspect. His speed wasn't NHL level and he didn't engage much physical play at all. I thought that in the Vancouver and San Jose games, where the physical play was the highest, Knight was at his worst. We'll see how he does in camp, but I think he's well behind a number of the prospects let along guys that have been playing in the NHL.

[Henry Fool]

Knight seems to be the type that reads the play rather than keeps his feet moving all the time. Sometimes felt that he stood around. We'll see if he has the quickness to contribute in the NHL. Could be that he played a little bit different than usual in the prospect games.

[cowtown75]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

If it comes down to Knight vs. Granlund for the 3rd C spot, I wonder who will come out on top. Right now Granlund is making a better case. Which I'm pretty surprised by, cause Knight was said to be as NHL ready as they come.

True, but so is Sven- and he didn't really shine out there either. It's all gonna come down to camp and some real NHL pre-season games.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

By watching him...

He actually was fairly physical, especially on the forecheck. And he actually played fairly well for the most part IMO, despite some people on these boards thinking he lacked offensive flair. He is also bigger and stronger than Horak.

I've seen way too many rockstars in rookie tournaments and training camp, end up not translating..... to bank on just that info. Nothing against Knight, but we'll see.... I hope you are right.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

I've seen way too many rockstars in rookie tournaments and training camp, end up not translating..... to bank on just that info. Nothing against Knight, but we'll see.... I hope you are right.

rockstar?

ok then

look, I never said Horak won't make it, I said he needs to add offense to make it

and I never said Knight or Reinhart were locks, I said they were bigger and their games were more suited to the bottom 6 - that doesn't mean they don't have to continue to progress as well though

as for the rookie tourney, I agree, it means little and many people are over-reacting to the way different people played. Having said that, you only had to watch him to see someone that was good on draws, smart defensively, and a strong fore-checker. Whether or not he can translate that to the NHL, only time will tell.

[kehatch]

Based on the camp team rosters it looks like the Flames might be serious about trying Galiardi at C. So I predict they at least try him there.

[killer_carlson]

Ramage snd ferland make the team and butler and jackman move on

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Ramage snd ferland make the team and butler and jackman move on

God, we can only hope.

Put me in the group that think Ramage makes the club out of camp. It'll be tough tough competition though with Cundari, Smith, and Russell competing for spots as well.

[N-E-B]

Everybody is going back to Junior or Abbotsford except Baertschi and the last spot will be constantly changing. Monahan will start with the Flames but will hopefully spend another yer in junior. Other than that, I doubt anyone will step in and steal an older guys spot.

[C-ero]

Baertschi-Backlund-Cammalleri
Hudler-Stajan-Stempniak
Glencross-Granlund-Jones
Ferland-Galiardi-Jackman

Brodie-Wideman
Russell-Giordano
Butler-Ramage

Ramo

[davidbjordan]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

if horak could develop into any of the guys u mentioned, we would all be estatic.

but i don't think he has the speed and forechecking ability of nilsson/cleary. conroy is a bit of a pipe dream. conroy in his prime was a 1b/2nd line center.

i'm think of someone like yelle wihout the grit and defensive prowess.

Yelle without those two things would be a shell of a hockey player... i hope for horak's sake he can show something (could potentially be a lower 6 winger too if centre gets congested)

[TheGrimm]

I'm also on the fence with Horak... I don't think he's shown 1st or 2nd line offensive skills at an NHL level and while I do think he has good fundamentals, I don't really see him in a 3rd/4th line checking role. He's a good overall player, but needs to specialize a bit if he ever wants to stick with the big club.

He is still fairly young, but 18 pts in 81 NHL games isn't too exciting. Even looking at his AHL production, 34 points in 73 games, it doesn't exactly jump off the page. I see a lot of people on this board excited about Horak, I am just not sure why.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by TheGrimm

I'm also on the fence with Horak... I don't think he's shown 1st or 2nd line offensive skills at an NHL level and while I do think he has good fundamentals, I don't really see him in a 3rd/4th line checking role. He's a good overall player, but needs to specialize a bit if he ever wants to stick with the big club.

He is still fairly young, but 18 pts in 81 NHL games isn't too exciting. Even looking at his AHL production, 34 points in 73 games, it doesn't exactly jump off the page. I see a lot of people on this board excited about Horak, I am just not sure why.

Maybe because Horak is about 25th place in scoring from the guys drafted in 2009. He has only 17 2009 1st round picks who have outscored him.

Brayden Schenn (2009 #5 overall pick) who would be considered a key building block (on any team) and who has so far been paid some where around $6M has 46 NHL points.

There are not that many 21 year olds that have shown they can play at the NHL level.

Backlund Birthdate: March 17, 1989 Age: 24
Horak Birthdate: May 21, 1991 Age: 22

over the last 2 seasons Backlund has put up 27 pts... 7 on the PP 20 even strength and is -19

Horaks 18 pts include 0 on the PP but 1 short-handed and Horak has been -2.

Horak's prime line-mates for his NHL games..... Byron, Jackman and Kostopolus.


If Horak was a late first round pick (20-30) the Flames would be satisfied with his progress and he would almost be guaranteed a spot on this re-building team.

I think the truth is not that far from that and Horak is pencilled in for a roster spot (similar to Backlund and Baertschi) on the Flames that is his to lose....

[kyuss275]

This discussion on Horak has got me thinking. While i do think he has a leg up on the newbies, same as veterans on one way contracts, i do wonder what his future is with the flames?

After listening to what Burke wants and the Feaster video ( they both seem to be on the same page), i am not sure he fits the mold. Not only am i not sure he fits the mold, but i don't think Grandlund or Backlund fit the mold either. I think in order for any of those 3 to be on the team in the next 2 years they will have to show that they are true 2nd line players. While i think they would do well as 3rd line players, i am not convinced that they fit the mold for a 3rd line player for the flames.

This also got me wondering, if Joe Colborne does not make the leafs, would they trade him? Maybe a Colborne for Horak trade. Colborne would have to pass through waivers, but Horak would not. Maybe Flames add a little something to even it out.

[TheGrimm]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Maybe because Horak is about 25th place in scoring from the guys drafted in 2009. He has only 17 2009 1st round picks who have outscored him.

Brayden Schenn (2009 #5 overall pick) who would be considered a key building block (on any team) and who has so far been paid some where around $6M has 46 NHL points.

There are not that many 21 year olds that have shown they can play at the NHL level.

Backlund Birthdate: March 17, 1989 Age: 24
Horak Birthdate: May 21, 1991 Age: 22

over the last 2 seasons Backlund has put up 27 pts... 7 on the PP 20 even strength and is -19

Horaks 18 pts include 0 on the PP but 1 short-handed and Horak has been -2.

Horak's prime line-mates for his NHL games..... Byron, Jackman and Kostopolus.


If Horak was a late first round pick (20-30) the Flames would be satisfied with his progress and he would almost be guaranteed a spot on this re-building team.

I think the truth is not that far from that and Horak is pencilled in for a roster spot (similar to Backlund and Baertschi) on the Flames that is his to lose....

This is all fine and good, and compared to many in his draft class, he's done well. I still don't think I've seen 1st or 2nd line skill, and as I said, he will need to specialize (PK/FO etc) very soon or I think his window could pass.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by TheGrimm

This is all fine and good, and compared to many in his draft class, he's done well. I still don't think I've seen 1st or 2nd line skill, and as I said, he will need to specialize (PK/FO etc) very soon or I think his window could pass.

When we picked up Horak he was projected to be a 3rd line player. Not sure why you would think he should show 1st line skill?

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by TheGrimm

This is all fine and good, and compared to many in his draft class, he's done well. I still don't think I've seen 1st or 2nd line skill, and as I said, he will need to specialize (PK/FO etc) very soon or I think his window could pass.

Yeah I concur... I think he needs to be able to do something significantly better in order to be a full-time NHL'er. I'm thinking he starts the year with the Heat with the NHL Centers being Stajan, Backlund, Knight, and Galiardi/Bouma.

I think Knight probably got a verbal commitment to start the year with the Flames when he signed. He had his pick of several franchises to go to so I figure it's not a stretch that he'd ask for a promise of a roster spot at least initially as a pre-condition. Might be why Begin is back on a AHL deal... insurance in case Knight can't hack it as a pro in his rookie season.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Yeah I concur... I think he needs to be able to do something significantly better in order to be a full-time NHL'er. I'm thinking he starts the year with the Heat with the NHL Centers being Stajan, Backlund, Knight, and Galiardi/Bouma.

I think Knight probably got a verbal commitment to start the year with the Flames when he signed. He had his pick of several franchises to go to so I figure it's not a stretch that he'd ask for a promise of a roster spot at least initially as a pre-condition. Might be why Begin is back on a AHL deal... insurance in case Knight can't hack it as a pro in his rookie season.

Verbal commitment or not, I'm not sure that something like that would be binding. I'd like to see Knight on the team, but if the Flames are giving out roster spots based on verbal commitments they are already going against their mantra of having the players who earn it playing.