Tipping is now at about 20% for good service

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Germany has no tipping, gratuity is included in the bill. The service overall was more poor than here, and according to Google, a waitress there takes home about $400 a week USD.

I know a couple of Canadians that have been working in Austria (Villach) as bartenders/servers at a fairly high end Pub for years and make nowhere close to that kind of money. I also used to know (couple years back) a German girl who worked in the service industry in Berlin and she also was making nowhere close to what you quoted.

Edit: Just as an aside, these Canadian girls are bloody amazingly good looking (not to mention very nice), so if anyone should be getting good tips it's them.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by kipperfan

I know a couple of Canadians that have been working in Austria (Villach) as bartenders/servers at a fairly high end Pub for years and make nowhere close to that kind of money. I also used to know (couple years back) a German girl who worked in the service industry in Berlin and she also was making nowhere close to what you quoted.

Edit: Just as an aside, these Canadian girls are bloody amazingly good looking (not to mention very nice), so if anyone should be getting good tips it's them.

~7.5 Euros an hour is good money?

[valo403]

Originally Posted by kipperfan

Interesting debate and one I have strong feelings about. Personally, I have no issue leaving a good tip for good service, heck, I am not even against leaving 25% (even on a large bill) if I get the great service I expect to get. But when I don’t get that great service then my tip % starts to slide dramatically. If I am having to sit with an empty glass for 10-15 minutes before I can get your attention to come back and get me a new beer….you aren’t getting a good tip (10-15% max). If it happens more then once while I’m there, you’ll barely even get a tip (5% max). If it happens the dreaded third time I simply won’t leave a tip and couldn’t care less how large the bill is, you get squat.

The “15% minimum tip” referenced in the article is pretty funny; why in hell would I give someone a “tip” for causing me to have an unpleasant experience? I think the real problem here is that the meaning of the “tip” has been lost over the years, specifically in North America. A tip is a gratuity, a gratuity is, and I quote “A favour or gift, usually in the form of money, given in return for service”. So, why would I be giving a “favour or gift” to someone who performed their job poorly, failed to provide me with appropriate service and probably caused me to have an unpleasant time?

As an aside, when discussing going out to a bar, I think it’s absurd to think one needs to be tipping the bartender every time he/she hands the drinker a bottle of beer out of the fridge behind him/her. Sorry, but I think your hourly wage (no matter how paltry) covers you handing people things without moving your legs, feet or eyes. Now if I order shots, or have a female with me getting a mixed drink then fair enough, a tip is in line. But these bartenders who expect a tip each time after they hand me a beer, my god that is great comedy, I simply cannot get enough of it. Though, if I do have any pennies or nickels in my pockets I might let them have those, not the dimes though.

I prefer how gratuities are handled in Europe (for the most part). Tips are not expected and are usually only given for great service – going above and beyond some might say. To me that makes sense, I will give you a bonus for personally making my day better with your good service. If you fail to do that then, like the rest of us, you will collect your agreed upon salary and nothing more. I would love to see some of our vaunted service industry members head over and work abroad as waiters/waitresses/bartenders for a while – unless they’re working in Australia (or a few other one off places) I can assure them that their appreciation level for Canadian tipping standards would immediately go through the roof.

Have fun not getting served the rest of the night

[troutman]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

I tipped my movers last month before they got started and they were really damn shocked by it, like no one ever tips them.

Suffice to say, I didn't pay for extra insurance but not a single thing was broken or damaged in the move.

How about your lawyer?

One lawyer I worked with in Vancouver received a Maserati from her client for winning a big case.

Clients in the Okanagan used to give me peaches.

Seriously I don't want tips, but it is nice when clients buy flowers or chocolates for my staff when they do a great job.

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

~7.5 Euros an hour is good money?

Nope, never said it was. I simply stated that I happen to know three people working in the service industry in Europe, and all three make less then that.

The only reference I made to "good money" was saying my Canadian friends should be making "good tips" if anyone is, as they are rather hot. They are not making rather good tips, thus further supporting my notion that service insury in employees in North American have it much, much better then their Europoen brethern and should really all go and work over there so they can appreciate how good they have it here, and how exceedingly generous people are here with regards to tips and tipping. That was my point.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by kipperfan

Nope, never said it was. I simply stated that I happen to know three people working in the service industry in Europe, and all three make less then that.

The only reference I made to "good money" was saying my Canadian friends should be making "good tips" if anyone is, as they are rather hot. They are not making rather good tips, thus further supporting my notion that service insury in employees in North American have it much, much better then their Europoen brethern and should really all go and work over there so they can appreciate how good they have it here, and how exceedingly generous people are here with regards to tips and tipping. That was my point.

Yeah, $2.13 an hour is sure having it good

That's the minimum wage for a service industry worker in Georgia.

Where did you get this fanciful idea that average service industry people in North America make good money? Some certainly do pretty well, but it's not the norm.

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by valo403

Have fun not getting served the rest of the night

I'm not 18 dude, I'm almost 30 and have employed the same tactics my whole life and never, not even one time, had an issue. And I used to go to the bar quite a bit. Like another poster said, they will serve you and if they don't you simply find the manager, from personal experience I can assure you that always solves the problem lightning fast. Managers tend not to stick up for their douchy employees (I'm sure exceptions occur somewhere, but not in my experiences), they side with the customer and tell the employee to get in line or get out. So I still get my beer, and let me tell you valo, whenever that happens the beer tastes even more delicious then usual!

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by valo403

Yeah, $2.13 an hour is sure having it good

That's the minimum wage for a service industry worker in Georgia.

Where did you get this fanciful idea that average service industry people in North America make good money? Some certainly do pretty well, but it's not the norm.

For the second time, I never used the term "good money". From knowing people who have worked in this industry in Canada, USA and Europe I can tell you the North Americans make way more then then Europeons (working in this specific indsury) and have a much higher standard of living. Tips are non-existant in Europe yet I have known people who have paid their entire tuition, books and all, just with tip money here in Canada. So yeah, I guess if you're a waiter at Humpty's you're not doing all that well, but comparing apples to apples, mid-high end bar staff do much, much better here then overseas (with some very rare exceptions).

[Fobulous]

Service in Calgary (can't speak for the rest of Canada but I am assuming it is the same) is freakin' terrible. I lived in the great city of Calgary my entire life until moving down to the states and although I knew the service was bad in Calgary, I didn't realize how bad until I moved to Houston.

In Calgary the norm is to tip 15%. Waiters/waitresses/bartenders all expect 15%. The service may be slow, drinks may take forever, the food may come out wrong but at the end of the meal if you don't tip at or above the 15% than YOU are considered cheap.

Down here in Houston they work for your tip. They know if they don't do a good job there is another person waiting in line for their job. Drinks always seem to come out faster and the people delivering them usually have better attitudes. I almost always tip more than 20% down here... for one, the service staff generally need their tips to compensate for lower wages (unlike Alberta's $9.95 minimum wage) and two, they more than earned it with their great service.

I realize I making some generalizations here but if you have ever lived in both cities you will see the insane difference in service.

-FoB

[Regular_John]

I tip a solid 15% most of the time, but lately I've been going up to 20% for my usual hangouts when I'm being served by the same staff on a semi-regular basis.

Particularly places like The Ship & Broken city whom I know were shut down just as long as our office was during the flood.

[YYC in LAX]

Originally Posted by valo403

So the other option is that the owner pays their staff more and the costs are covered by.......aliens??

If restaurant wages went up and tipping was removed across the board prices would likely remain fairly similar to where they are now when you factor the tip in.

Yes, aliens. Good one.

The money to pay server staff would come out of the restaurant owners proft margins obviously. Margins that are very high at successful restaurants.

Many retail stores and fast food establishments don't expect their customers to tip their staff and therefore, in many circumstances, pay their staff above minimum wage. The employer is paying their employees, not the customer.

I understand the restaurant business is a tough business to succeed in, but I wouldn't exactly feel bad for the owner of Catch, Chicago Chophouse, earls, etc if he or she paid their staff higher wages.

[AltaGuy]

Originally Posted by YYC in LAX

I usually tip 20% but don't necessarily feel I should be. I'm certianly not anti-tipping but I do think it's kind of bull#### that restaurant owners expect the customer to pay their staff and not them. Just a weird and different industry that I don't fully understand. Seems kind of a slap in the face that an owner can pay their staff peanuts and push the cost to customers.

I'm a bar manager, and always find these conversations interesting.

A few things:

- If serving staff did not receive tips, we would undoubtedly pay them more hourly. However, we would almost certainly raise our prices a corresponding amount. That leaves any choice whatsoever of what to pay your server out of a customer's hands.

- My serving staff go out of their way to identify great customers - just simple self-interest. For those of you who like to identify problems with your service and/or tip poorly, you are probably consistently getting worse service everywhere you go and having a worse evening out than someone who is more easy-going and tips well. While as a manager, I try to maintain a high level of service for everybody, serving staff are very intuitive/perceptive about the customers they are serving, including body language and non-verbal cues.

- I was a bartender in the UK for awhile, and I can without a doubt say that taking tips out of the equation leads to way, way poorer service on average. I think it is completely fair to tip 5% or nothing for poor to very poor service. That helps keep servers honest and makes them work harder. However, if you are someone who is looking for any excuse to lower your tip, you should probably look at my advice above and realize that your experiences while going out are crappy because of it. You're also saying more about yourself than the service.

- Many things can go wrong while serving people. One simple mistake can have a snowball effect on a server's performance (a delay ringing something in, kitchen burns something, splitting a $700, 15 person bill into individual bills (!!)). One of the lovely things that happens frequently in this industry is that young people miss work. One person doesn't show up for a shift, and all of a sudden everyone has more than they can handle and service suffers. Just because you're tipping doesn't mean that servers don't deserve the benefit of the doubt.

- I see no reason why tip percentages should go up. 15% is fair for the average. However, I do know that tip-outs have been going up consistently in Calgary. At most chain restaurants and bars, tip-outs for servers are now often above 9%. One bad tip on a $500 bill, and many servers are now paying to serve customers. This is a problem in my industry and I don't like the practice of high tip-outs.

- And finally, to go with the above - if you have a large bill (say, $200 or above), please don't think to yourself, "20 bucks seems like a huge tip!" That's my pet-peeve. Always a percentage, please.

Maybe I should start a "I'm a bar manager, ask me anything" thread.

[Fobulous]

Anyone else hating going to a bar and asking for a beer and having to tip the bartender a $1 each time just to grab it from the fridge, crack it and hand it to you? The sad thing is you have to do this to appease the bartender just to get served the next time you walk up to get a beer.

I should ask my boss to tip me each time I submit a piece of work. Based on how much a deepwater completion is in the gulf of mexico (~$150 million) that 15% tip would be pretty sweet!

Damn service industry setting ridiculous tipping standards!

[Regular_John]

Originally Posted by fotze

You tipped zero percent when we were there last.

I don't believe that to be true. Granted I left cash, but I believe I left about $30 for the 3 pints I had.

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

General questions to well traveled people:

What part(s) of the world have you been to where tipping was not common? Was the service still good/bad? Were the servers paid a proper salary?

Curious.

Places in China.




No, I'm not Qiang.

[Regular_John]

Originally Posted by fotze

Hmm really not sure if you're messing with me here. My typical "eff it I'm not messing with change" move is to throw down the closest $10-$20 I can.

If I really did leave a 0% tip it was oversight, but like I said, I don't recall exactly.

[Super-Rye]

If i get really good service I'll tip 20%, bad service 10%.

20% is definitely high and it's completely ridiculous for anyone to expect someone to tip that amount, but now a days with kitchen usually getting 2% of food sales, and the waitress having to tip out the bartender and the manager that 20% gets split 4 ways.

[Locke]

I am as lazy as I am cheap so I tip 15%.

I dont care if you balanced my meal on your nose while juggling flaming chainsaws, you get 15%.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by YYC in LAX

Yes, aliens. Good one.

The money to pay server staff would come out of the restaurant owners proft margins obviously. Margins that are very high at successful restaurants.

Many retail stores and fast food establishments don't expect their customers to tip their staff and therefore, in many circumstances, pay their staff above minimum wage. The employer is paying their employees, not the customer.

I understand the restaurant business is a tough business to succeed in, but I wouldn't exactly feel bad for the owner of Catch, Chicago Chophouse, earls, etc if he or she paid their staff higher wages.

Oh obviously, owners would definitely just take that hair cut

Profits are high at a very select group of restaurants, they could perhaps afford to not pass the cost on to customers but I doubt they would. Most restaurants likely couldn't afford to pay servers a higher wage without passing the cost along in the form of higher prices, either that or less servers which would likely lead to lower service quality.

[East Coast Flame]

After just returning from Europe where they don't tip; I must say I don't mind tipping at all. We definitely take for granted how generally service is pretty great in our culture. The service was pretty awful everywhere we went (England, Netherlands, Germany, Croatia and Italy).