[Signing] Blues sign Bouwmeester to 5yr extension ($5.4 mil AAV)

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

This is a weird comment and i'm surprised to see it go unchallenged.

Giordano isn't a top pairing defender and Bouwmeester is a top pairing defender on just about every single team in the league.

Giordano is like a week younger than Bouwmeester and has played less than half as many games. I don't think Bouwmeester has missed a game he's been eligible to play in since he entered the league. Giordano wasn't a top 4 NHL defender until 3 years ago, while Bouwmeester was a top pairing free agent during the same time frame.

Giordano is getting progressively worse from his high-water mark while Bouwmeester seems to be the same or better than in previous years. They are essentially the exact same age and one guy plays 30 minutes a night and another struggles playing more than 20.

Bouwmeester is unquestionably better. At roughly a million more per year, it gets even sillier.

Sour Grapes at this point to think Giordano is on par with Bouwmeester.

Playing on the same teams:

2010-11 Gio >>>> Bouw

Gio 82 games played 8 goals 43 pts -8 23:02 TOI
Bouw 82 games 4 goals 24 pts -2 25:59


2011-12 Gio >> Bouw (only >> because Gio missed 21 games)

Gio 61 games 9 goals 27 pts +0 23:01
Bouw 82 games 5 goals 29 pts -21 25:57


2012-13 Bouw dumped for prospects and what St.L thought was a 25th+ draft pick... Gio , Baertschi, Brodie, Glencross only Flames that are un-touchables.

Gio has been the Flames clear cut #1 D for 3 years.....

The extra 3 minutes a game that Bouwmeester floats through does not make him a top d-man in the league on any team.

[trackercowe]

Except for being a top pairing dman on St. Louis, one of the better teams in the league with a defensively responsible coach at the helm. I'd argue St. Louis has the best top four in the league (Pietrangelo, Bouwmeester, Shattenkirk, Jackman). Then on top of that they have two more very good defenders in Polak and Leopold. There isn't one slouch in that core, and they could have the best defensive core in the league.

If St. Louis of all teams believes in Bouwmeester, and that he has ability to play on their top pairing then why would anyone question them? I wouldn't put that much stock in what he did in Calgary honestly, nothing has worked here the last few years, it's really hard to have a real idea on how well many members of the Flames will fair on other teams.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Playing on the same teams:

2010-11 Gio >>>> Bouw

Gio 82 games played 8 goals 43 pts -8 23:02 TOI
Bouw 82 games 4 goals 24 pts -2 25:59


2011-12 Gio >> Bouw (only >> because Gio missed 21 games)

Gio 61 games 9 goals 27 pts +0 23:01
Bouw 82 games 5 goals 29 pts -21 25:57


2012-13 Bouw dumped for prospects and what St.L thought was a 25th+ draft pick... Gio , Baertschi, Brodie, Glencross only Flames that are un-touchables.

Gio has been the Flames clear cut #1 D for 3 years.....

The extra 3 minutes a game that Bouwmeester floats through does not make him a top d-man in the league on any team.

Gio performed best relative to his role. He isn't a 26 minute a night D and he isn't a 1. Brodie is our #1 now. Not Gio. In terms of assignments, minutes, PP, TJ is the go to guy.

Gio will be able to achieve a measure of success if he plays as a three. He's paid like a three. Be happy with him as a three.

[puckluck2]

Giordano is pretty overrated. He's been terrible for about 70 games now. Having said that Bouwmeester was average to terrible for pretty much every single game in red. I'd take Gio over Bouwmeester ten times out of ten.

[Anduril]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Gio performed best relative to his role. He isn't a 26 minute a night D and he isn't a 1. Brodie is our #1 now. Not Gio. In terms of assignments, minutes, PP, TJ is the go to guy.

Gio will be able to achieve a measure of success if he plays as a three. He's paid like a three. Be happy with him as a three.

Whoa. Since when did Brodie become the go to guy for minutes? I thought Wideman had that honor though it doesn't mean much on Hartley's system of fairly distributing the minutes. As for defensive assignments, that still remains to be seen in a full NHL season.

Giordano would know very well about playing well for 1.5 seasons and getting undeserved praise.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Anduril

Whoa. Since when did Brodie become the go to guy for minutes? I thought Wideman had that honor though it doesn't mean much on Hartley's system of fairly distributing the minutes. As for defensive assignments, that still remains to be seen in a full NHL season.

Giordano would know very well about playing well for 1.5 seasons and getting undeserved praise.

You don't go down this road, blowing it up, trading your vets, if Brodie is not on the first pairing. And I'm sure Sideman will play with him; he's a good partner. He'll likely get more Pk time early. By the Olympic break I expect Brodie to have fully asserted himself as the #1. It's all he did after bouw left.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Giordano isn't a top pairing defender and Bouwmeester is a top pairing defender on just about every single team in the league.

I think it's possible for Bouwmeester to return to his pre-Brent Sutter form, but I'm not sure he can. The good thing is that Hitchcock's system encourages aggressive pinching from his defenders which is right up Bouwmeester's ally. Still, while Bouwmeester has been used as a top pairing guy and would likely be used as a top pairing guy on most teams, I think Bouwmeester's flaws were exposed when he was in Calgary. Bouwmeester simply isn't a star defenseman capable of anchoring a defensive pairing. He's more of a complimentary guy on a contender.

Originally Posted by trackercowe

Except for being a top pairing dman on St. Louis, one of the better teams in the league with a defensively responsible coach at the helm. I'd argue St. Louis has the best top four in the league (Pietrangelo, Bouwmeester, Shattenkirk, Jackman). Then on top of that they have two more very good defenders in Polak and Leopold. There isn't one slouch in that core, and they could have the best defensive core in the league.

If St. Louis of all teams believes in Bouwmeester, and that he has ability to play on their top pairing then why would anyone question them? I wouldn't put that much stock in what he did in Calgary honestly, nothing has worked here the last few years, it's really hard to have a real idea on how well many members of the Flames will fair on other teams.

A lot of fans around the NHL have been and are still high on the Blues, but the reality is that the Blues have been underachievers. Hitchcock's system is great and I have no doubt that the Blues wouldn't miss a beat if they replaced Bouwmeester with a "lesser defenseman". I honestly don't know why we shouldn't question this signing. Doug Armstrong, Hitchcock, and the Blues have been given a lot of respect the past couple of years but what has the team really done? Two seasons ago they were one of the best teams in the regular season and advanced to the 2nd round only to be swept by the Kings. This season, they needed a good run to ensure a playoff spot and lost in the first round to the Kings. Signing Bouwmeester to this contract doesn't mean it's a good decision as far as winning is concerned. Let's wait and see.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Anduril

Whoa. Since when did Brodie become the go to guy for minutes? I thought Wideman had that honor though it doesn't mean much on Hartley's system of fairly distributing the minutes. As for defensive assignments, that still remains to be seen in a full NHL season.

There really isn't a go to guy on the Flames defense and I think that Gio will be that guy by default until Brodie can show more defensive reliability and be able to be counted on against top line talent and on the PK.

Wideman will get a ton of minutes thanks in large part to his 2 minute PP shifts but is a guy you need to get off the ice against the top lines and probably second lines as well at ES and who is useless on the PK or when trying to hold a one or two goal lead.

Bouwmeester is an decent #1 and great as a #2 defenseman. He can clearly anchor a pairing as we have seen with him having to bail out Butler and Giordano the last two years and carry them while also handling his own duties. It is a great signing for St. Louis and should work out in terms of money and term.

[Machiavelli]

Can't think of another hockey player as boring and awkward at this guy. Good luck in St. Louis, thanks for nothing.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by moon

Bouwmeester is an decent #1 and great as a #2 defenseman. He can clearly anchor a pairing as we have seen with him having to bail out Butler and Giordano the last two years and carry them while also handling his own duties.

Bailing out Butler? More like sucking with him.

[moon]

Originally Posted by FAN

Bailing out Butler? More like sucking with him.

The amount of times Butler had to pass the puck to Bouwmeester to get the puck out of the zone or try and cover both guys as Butler covered nobody really contributed to people's view that Bouwmeester sucked. He was fine that year considering he got 0 help from his dud of a partner.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Gio performed best relative to his role. He isn't a 26 minute a night D and he isn't a 1. Brodie is our #1 now. Not Gio. In terms of assignments, minutes, PP, TJ is the go to guy.

Gio will be able to achieve a measure of success if he plays as a three. He's paid like a three. Be happy with him as a three.

wow do you ever value that 3 minutes of extra ice time that Bouwmeester can deliver. This is delivered with 3rd pairing offence and no physical aspect to his game.

If Gio were to stop hitting altogether and clearing out in front of the net he could easily play another 3 minutes BUT he would be playing Bouwmeester style and not be effective either.


The way the Bouwmeester's supporters tell it Bouwmeester is a 30 minute d-man that controls the game...... I have never seen this version.

Lidstrom (like Bouwmeester) played 26 minutes of non-contact hockey. Do the Bouwmeester supporters see the difference that hockey IQ and passing and offensive ability that Lidstrom put into his 26 minutes?

Do you know who else delivered a lot of ice time? Anders Eriksson.... the biggest difference between Bouwmeester and Eriksson? Eriksson played a role in winning a Stanley cup with Detroit in 1998.

Both Bouwmeester and Eriksson were physically large skilled 1st round picks that can play a lot of minutes that did not play physically and do not play well in important games.

Eriksson's individual bad plays are well documented but as far as an extended suckage under pressure by someone the team counts on: Bouwmeester's games 72 through 80 in 2011-12 can be used as a class room example. He played well the last 2 games after the Flames were eliminated.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by moon

The amount of times Butler had to pass the puck to Bouwmeester to get the puck out of the zone or try and cover both guys as Butler covered nobody really contributed to people's view that Bouwmeester sucked. He was fine that year considering he got 0 help from his dud of a partner.

He was fine for a 20 game stretch to start the year. He was back to his usual frustrating self towards the end.

[dustygoon]

So athletic yet so lacking in Hockey IQ.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

So athletic yet so lacking in Hockey IQ.

Lacking a good shot, physical play and a winning desire as well, but at least he can eat minutes!

[blender]

You know it is CP in August when there is a debate raging about Bouwmeester vs Giordano.
News Flash: Bouwmeester is no longer a Flame and Gio never was/will be a number one D.
Both are good NHL players who play different roles.
ricardodw can prove anything with statistics; 74% of CPers know that!

[FAN]

Originally Posted by moon

The amount of times Butler had to pass the puck to Bouwmeester to get the puck out of the zone or try and cover both guys as Butler covered nobody really contributed to people's view that Bouwmeester sucked. He was fine that year considering he got 0 help from his dud of a partner.

He was paid to be a star. He wasn't paid to be "fine".

[moon]

Originally Posted by FAN

He was paid to be a star. He wasn't paid to be "fine".

Sure he was overpaid on the last deal not sure anyone is arguing against that and fine was just a word he was the top Flames defenseman pretty much every year here and certainly over the last two years.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by moon

Sure he was overpaid on the last deal not sure anyone is arguing against that and fine was just a word he was the top Flames defenseman pretty much every year here and certainly over the last two years.

Okay he was overpaid despite being USED as the top Flames defenseman. What does that mean? It certainly doesn't mean that Bouwmeester is some sort of stud defenseman.

[moon]

Originally Posted by FAN

Okay he was overpaid despite being USED as the top Flames defenseman. What does that mean? It certainly doesn't mean that Bouwmeester is some sort of stud defenseman.

It means that he was paid as a top 5 defenseman and was really a top 20. I guess that kind of sucks but in the grand scheme of things not the worst thing and certainly one of the very least issues the Flames had the past 4/5 years he was here.

I said he was a decent #1 and great #2 so not sure that I ever said he was a stud defenseman. He is a legit top pairing guy that brings some offense, some defense can play in any situation, isn't a liability on the ice and can play effectively at 25+ minutes a night if need be. He also showed that he fit in well with the Blues and with Pietrangelo. So no not a stud but a damn useful defender and a guy that will make the Blues a better team with him on it than not.