A Scientist Debunks The 'Magic' Of Vitamins And Supplements

[Flames89]

So:
- Vitamin A: good, unless in excess
- Vitamin B: good, no betacarotene though
- Vitamin C: good
- Vitamin D: good
- Vitamin E: bad
- Fish Oil: undetermined. Pros may or may not outweigh recent cons

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

So for the sake of argument I looked at the ingredients of a one a day multivitamin and the amount of Vitamin E in one tablet was 45 I.U. (international unit). In looking specifically at Vitamin E, the study that was originally used indicates that the amount administered was 400 I.U. a significant amount more than is in one tablet (almost nine times as much). Now I don't know the concentrations of other multivitamins but the study quoted in the NPR article is pretty suspect based on that aspect if used to discredit multivitamins (in my opinion at least).

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Flames89

So:
- Vitamin A: good, unless in excess
- Vitamin B: good, no betacarotene though
- Vitamin C: good
- Vitamin D: good
- Vitamin E: bad
- Fish Oil: undetermined. Pros may or may not outweigh recent cons

So, all that is good for your system.

Unless you take them in multi-vitamin form, then it's a placebo.

- Vitamin Terrorists / CP

[Daradon]

Stories/studies like this depress me a little. It's just so frustrating. When it comes to medicine and especially diet it's almost impossible to stay on top of what you should and shouldn't do to stay healthy. What you were supposed to do 15 years ago, your not supposed to do anymore, and vice versa. Or, one doctor tells you one thing, and another tells you another thing.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Stories/studies like this depress me a little. It's just so frustrating. When it comes to medicine and especially diet it's almost impossible to stay on top of what you should and shouldn't do to stay healthy. What you were supposed to do 15 years ago, your not supposed to do anymore, and vice versa. Or, one doctor tells you one thing, and another tells you another thing.

I'll trust my doctor more than anyone for modern medical advice -and I think I speak for alot of people when I say that.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

See this is the ironic part - you argue about people only wanting to see the arguments they want to see, yet you follow the exact same argument style you're arguing against. Hell, it's not even ironic; it's just hypocritical. .

You just don't get it, do you? I don't CARE about the effects of vitamins, I didn't read the studies, and I frankly have no strong opinion either way because I haven't looked into it. I *do* care that you think that a valid way of forming an opinion on these matters is "whatever works for me."

Well, that's wrong, and stupid, and since you clearly don't get that it is both of these things, and continue to argue, yes I'm going to focus on that and continue to debate the point, and mock it besides, because it's not even properly debatable, it's like trying to logically argue with a little kid about which teddy bear he owns is the best race car driver.

I fully understand what you are trying to say. It's not complicated. "I'm happy in my ignorance, and I'm going to believe what I want regardless of any evidence." You're the one that doesn't get what you're saying, or to be more precise, logically implying: "Truth is what I say it is, and no one can tell me differently." Yah, not arrogant and obtuse at all.

Now you could actually address the point I'm making - just this once - or you can continue to restate your belief that only you know what's good for you. I'm sure that'll be convincing the fourth or fifth time you say it.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Stories/studies like this depress me a little. It's just so frustrating. When it comes to medicine and especially diet it's almost impossible to stay on top of what you should and shouldn't do to stay healthy. What you were supposed to do 15 years ago, your not supposed to do anymore, and vice versa. Or, one doctor tells you one thing, and another tells you another thing.

I was just thinking this this morning when I was whipping up my morning high fructose corn syrup smoothie.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by Thor

Its all in the original article, and the 2nd article I posted below it, assuming you did not read them?

As I also mentioned, we are dealing with META analysis, META is when you take 100 studies done on say, Vitamin E and look at their results to see if there is statistical leanings one way or the other.

This is just one article by Paul Offit, however there are plenty of scientists as I also mentioned earlier quite concerned about what people have been doing with vitamins as the research is not supporting in most cases supplementation and especially not high dose vitamin use as became a mantra for Vitamin C, again posted in my original post about the genius who started this idea that high dose Vitamin C intake could do all kinds of miraculous things..

Here is a typical meta study chart, to give you a sense of why when talking META studies, scientists are referring to a long period of study, and many studies within them. Usually we are talking about 10 of thousands if not 100,000 of thousands of people in total in these META analyses.

Look at the high dosage Vitamin E studies, all show higher mortality than with control groups, worry some for people taking too much Vitamin E.

Spoiler!

Where exactly in the original article? I read it all and all I see are his claims not his studies.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by jammies

You just don't get it, do you? I don't CARE about the effects of vitamins, I didn't read the studies, and I frankly have no strong opinion either way because I haven't looked into it. I *do* care that you think that a valid way of forming an opinion on these matters is "whatever works for me."

Well, that's wrong, and stupid, and since you clearly don't get that it is both of these things, and continue to argue, yes I'm going to focus on that and continue to debate the point, and mock it besides, because it's not even properly debatable, it's like trying to logically argue with a little kid about which teddy bear he owns is the best race car driver.

I fully understand what you are trying to say. It's not complicated. "I'm happy in my ignorance, and I'm going to believe what I want regardless of any evidence." You're the one that doesn't get what you're saying, or to be more precise, logically implying: "Truth is what I say it is, and no one can tell me differently." Yah, not arrogant and obtuse at all.

Now you could actually address the point I'm making - just this once - or you can continue to restate your belief that only you know what's good for you. I'm sure that'll be convincing the fourth or fifth time you say it.

Ozy's probably right, and that irks you because you can't prove it.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by jammies

TL;DR

You need medicine to calm your nerves. Might I suggest ativan? Or go natural and get more sex. Not from me though. But I think you might have anxiety issues.

Actually, take a placebo. I heard those work well.

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

To be fair, GPs aren't typically on the forefront of medical advances.

That made me think of a comment from a doctor of mine lately, that the rate of medical knowledge, being published these days, is so voluminous that if a doctor tried to keep completely up-to-date, he'd have no time to practice his profession.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Muta

Ozy's probably right, and that irks you because you can't prove it.

No, there is no proof either way - saying, I take a multivitamin and I don't get sick isn't proof of anything except that he didn't get sick. There may be correlation but there isn't the associated causation, there is no proof. I don't care if he takes a multivitamin, if it works for him great... but the question has to exist if the scientific literature agrees with his opinion and for the most part it appears that it does not. I have doubts regarding the negative impacts of multivitamins but I also question people who mindlessly pop pills because of no apparent reason.

Multivitamin/Mineral Supplements and Prevention of Chronic Disease: Executive Summary -
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/85/1/265S.full


"Overall, data on total mortality rates pointed to either no increased risk or lower risk in the groups with multivitamin/mineral supplement use."

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

No, there is no proof either way - saying, I take a multivitamin and I don't get sick isn't proof of anything except that he didn't get sick. There may be correlation but there isn't the associated causation, there is no proof. I don't care if he takes a multivitamin, if it works for him great... but the question has to exist if the scientific literature agrees with his opinion and for the most part it appears that it does not. I have doubts regarding the negative impacts of multivitamins but I also question people who mindlessly pop pills because of no apparent reason.

Multivitamin/Mineral Supplements and Prevention of Chronic Disease: Executive Summary -
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/85/1/265S.full


"Overall, data on total mortality rates pointed to either no increased risk or lower risk in the groups with multivitamin/mineral supplement use."

My comment was a dig, surprised you didn't get that.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by Muta

Ozy's probably right, and that irks you because you can't prove it.

That must be it. I'm mad because I can't prove *Ozy's* right. I guess clear and logical thought must be a specialty in your family.

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

You need medicine to calm your nerves.

Haha! Like I'm riled up arguing with you? That's like getting exhausted fist-fighting a sleeping toddler strapped into a car seat.

See? That's condescension. Your attempt was pretty weak.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by jammies

Good at law, not so good at personal hygiene.

Insert dirty lawyers joke here.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by jammies

That must be it. I'm mad because I can't prove *Ozy's* right. I guess clear and logical thought must be a specialty in your family.

Sorry to quell your sexual fantasies, but I'm not related to Ozy_Flame.

Originally Posted by jammies

Haha! Like I'm riled up arguing with you? That's like getting exhausted fist-fighting a sleeping toddler strapped into a car seat.

See? That's condescension. Your attempt was pretty weak.

Dude... you are so riled up. He's got you completely in his crosshairs.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Muta

Sorry to quell your sexual fantasies, but I'm not related to Ozy_Flame.



Dude... you are so riled up. He's got you completely in his crosshairs.

Notice how he didn't quote the sex advice? At least he can agree through non-verbal words!

[Peanut]

It's like a dick-measuring contest in a vitamins thread.

[Hack&Lube]

I think that point Thor is trying to make (and I agree wholeheartedly with him) is that one must temper and filter out the information you are presented with by both the medical/scientific establishment as well as popular opinion. The same lessons you can derive from the organic foods thread can be found here.

Just because someone (or mass consensus) tells you that something is good for you, that does not mean that you do not need to vet, balance, and weigh out this information for yourself. Nor does this mean that the opposite is necessarily bad for you either.

Also, as biological creatures that evolved from the very fact that we are all born with some slight variations from each other (which may or may not impart survival benefits), we need to realize that blanket statements about anything we intake into our bodies do not necessarily apply to everybody else and we need to take everything with a grain of salt (unless you have high blood pressure, kidney failure, or ventricular cardiomyopathy, etc.)

Common sense tells me that vitamins do have a tangible benefit and that vitamins, in addition to vital amino acids and sources of energy are necessary for the sustainment of life. I will take a vitamin every now and then but they are not a cure-all, just as eating only organic foods is also not a cure-all. The most important thing to realize is that massive doses of anything is going to be detrimental to you no-matter what.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Muta

Sorry to quell your sexual fantasies, but I'm not related to Ozy_Flame.

Oh snap, sexual orientation burn. Junior High called...