[PGT] Flames beat Detroit 3-2.

[moon]

Originally Posted by rubecube

So moon, are you suggesting the players should be actively throwing games?

Nope.

I am saying I am disappointed that they won with a pretty poor performance and that it still could have been a great game by Kipper even if the team would have lost.

I don't think that 90% of players would throw games so no way to expect that from them. I just want the other teams to actually show up especially when Detroit and Phoenix supposedly wanted to win these games.

[jwags]

Originally Posted by Kaine

I don't understand the "we won't do well at the draft if we can't pick top 3" crap. Outside of the top 1-2 players you won't often find a franchise player, even then it's never a sure thing. That's not even accounting for the fact that it looks like the first round is so deep this year the top 10 appear to have "quality player" potential.

To each their own.

Imagine if that player we drafted had the same work ethic as a guy like Reinhart but way more skill which is very likely considering we will probably draft 3rd to 7th. Then imagine how good that guy would look coming into a team that competes every night and where there's a bunch of young guys fighting for the same job. There is only so much a high draft pick can do on his own. The rest is player development, work ethic, strong team culture etc. Being as competive as possible is the best thing for this team unless you plan on turning every player over.

[djsFlames]

Needed the loss, that's all i'll say.

Pride is great, but this was disappointing. Now we may have to look at Monahan or Lindholm, whom are great players, but most certainly are below the guys we were looking at in the top 3. And we may not even get our pick of the two. Need Nashville and Carolina to man up and start playing some real hockey, or give even the slightest damn.

Don't even want to think about the possibility of passing the Oilers either.

[browna]

For those "scolding" the Flames, what can you say? The Wings handed them two goals. Kipper's amazing save at the end made up for the short hopped goal that moved 3ft.
The Flames played a below average game even for them and got two goals handed to them on a silver platter. Blame the crappy Wings 100% for this.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Do posters realise that the flames only traded off 2 forwards at the deadline? In the last couple of days i have heard bring back Cervenka, MacDonald, and Begin. I guess posters don't want Horak, Reinhart, Bouma ect. on the team.

The team is not going to ice a version of the Abbotsford Heat next season.

[soreshins]

Originally Posted by J-bo09

Was at the game. Wanted to have a chance to see Kipper at home if it was his last game.

Not one person in the crowd was unhappy we won. Not one. The entire place erupted when Kipper made that save at the end. The entire building was behind him and the team tonight.

5 years from now, I may or may not be watching the player we drafted in 2013. I sure as hell will remember in all likelyhood seeing one of the final games of one of my favorite players of all time.

It actually makes me mad we are arguing draft position on a night when one of the best guys to put on the jersey in about to ride into the sunset.

THIS. All you guys calling for a tank are hypocrites. On one hand you call out the weasel Canucks for diving but then call for us to tank. Both are the same - unsportsmanlike and pathetic for a pro sports team it any athlete for that matter.

I'm just glad I got to see Kipper come out for a bow on a winning performance and be cheered the way he deserves.

[Dogbert]

Originally Posted by moon

Sure nobody is complaining about giving a solid effort but the team is turning in meh performances (outside of Edmonton game) and still losing more than winning so a game like this seems to do little to nothing to change the so called culture of losing that Edmonton supposedly has.

It's not a culture of losing that's holding the Oilers back. It's a culture of non-competition.

That's what tanking does - it teaches players that it's okay to lose games. That's a very hard mentality to change.

[Sylvanfan]

Detroit has to love that they just committed 32 million or so to Howard just to see him give away their playoff spot.

[nik-]

No one expects the Flames to throw the game, pro's don't do that, but this situation is maddening. This team can't win when it needs to, and now that losses actually could mean something, they win.

[Flamescat]

I'll take a rerun of the Miikka Kiprusoff Show for tonight, Flames are out with CLB winning in ANA, don't see them picking up points on the road trip. The boys are playing with heart and that's fine with me.

[Psytic]

I'm not sure how they can play this out any different. They got rid of their two "star" players they brought up a bunch of green players. Theoretically they should be losing hard. Can't fault them if other teams are playing terrible. If they throw the game their is legal ramifications all they can do is play. They have been set up to fail and aren't. I think thats a good thing. At least the guys on the team look to be a bunch that will buy in and the whole will be greater than the sum of the parts for the first time in awhile.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Mike F

What exactly do people want?

For the team to be filled with players that fold the tent and stop trying?

For the players to play hard but be so bad that they lose every game?

Given the young guys who are getting the bulk of the ice time right now will be a key part of rebuilding the franchise, I think the organization would be in much more trouble if either were the case.

The team is playing bad enough to lose these games that's a major issue for me. They aren't playing good hockey right now. They are giving effort sure but it isn't quality hockey.

And I really don't think (maybe hope is the better word) that most of these young guys will be a key part in a rebuild.

Outside of Brodie and Baertschi none of the sub-24's look like top 6/top 4 guys. Reinhart, Horak, Backlund might be nice support guys but unlikely they are going to be the key guys on a contending team.

Out of the older guys maybe Gio can turn it around and be a solid contributor on a contending Flames team but everyone else is either too old or too crappy to likely be a key piece of a contender in the time it takes to rebuild.

The effort from these kids is nice to see but the overall play isn't showing much in terms of future top level talent potential.

[Jake]

I have respect for some posters honourable "winning is always best" attitude, but I just can't see how these two or three extra wins are more valuable than getting Jones, MacKinnon or Drouin instead of Barkov, Monahan, Nurse or Lindholm. To me, that high draft pick is a much more tangible benefit than the supposed "winning culture" these wins are supposedly building.

[Kaine]

Originally Posted by I_H8_Crawford

Yeah, winning meaningless games and getting crappy draft picks sure worked out for the Young Guns v1.0 hey???

Top 10 in this years draft a "crap draft pick"? Haha ok...

[moon]

Originally Posted by Dogbert

It's not a culture of losing that's holding the Oilers back. It's a culture of non-competition.

That's what tanking does - it teaches players that it's okay to lose games. That's a very hard mentality to change.

I think you are vastly overrating the role that the players had in trying to lose in Edmonton and vastly underrating the fact they have just been a crap, poorly constructed team.

[CSharp]

Frickin bad time to put together a string of wins. Good for Kipper, but this team doesn't know when to win. Damn frustrating!

[moon]

Originally Posted by Kaine

Top 10 in this years draft a "crap draft pick"? Haha ok...

Well a top 10 pick isn't any different in this draft than most and we certainly aren't getting the same quality of guy just by drafting in top 10 as opposed to the top 3 where the elite talent is.

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by nik-

I don't understand this "culture of losing" crap. We ARE losing on a season by season scale. How is losing at the end of a season going to create a culture of losing if four #### seasons hasn't ... and probably the next three seasons added to that.

exactly. and its not like they are beating the opposition with some great hockey to build upon next year. the other teams just suck more/actively tank.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by nik-

No one expects the Flames to throw the game, pro's don't do that, but this situation is maddening. This team can't win when it needs to, and now that losses actually could mean something, they win.

Blame Howard for handing the game to the Flames on a silver platter.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by moon

Outside of Brodie and Baertschi none of the sub-24's look like top 6/top 4 guys. Reinhart, Horak, Backlund might be nice support guys but unlikely they are going to be the key guys on a contending team.

Backlund clearly looks like a top 6 guy. He's made some massive strides in his development in the past year. One of our smartest offensive players game in and game out from what I've seen. Can't believe some people don't see this.

Horak might be a top two liner long term as well. Don't forget how young he is.