2013 Toronto Blue Jays thread

[transplant99]

AA should not be fired at this point...everyone in baseball including Rogers themselves believed his off season moves were the best in the game. Clearly it didnt play out that way as this club isnt even in the realm of bad...they are downright awful....among the worst in the entire game.

That tends to lend itself to being far beyond management or coaching...this is all about a bunch of talented guys who care more about themselves rather than the other guys around them.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by transplant99

That tends to lend itself to being far beyond management or coaching...this is all about a bunch of talented guys who care more about themselves rather than the other guys around them.

Successful organizations seek out team players and create a solid team environment from management to players. Where's the leadership in the Jays organization?

[moon]

I am not a Jays fan (obviously) but I think once Rogers signed on to the Marlins trade it makes sense to go with AA for at least the 3 years he claims this plan is. I am not sold on this not being a big deal because the plan was to compete over 3 years and not right away like many Blue Jay apologists would have you believe cough..Wilner..cough but changing GM's now brings in a new guy with his hands tied to a lot of guys already signed with likely not a lot of desirability. If it doesn't work out in 3 years there will be a lot more flexibility for a new guy to make changes and build the team he wants.

As for the trade in the off-season I said then it was the type of move that needed to be done because going with stud prospects in A, AA, AAA sounds exciting but rarely produces a ton of wins in the majors and produces 0 runs when those guys are in the minors. I think many saw a lot of red flags with the new guys brought in which is why the fact they aren't AL East leaders isn't a shock to many but I thought fighting for 2/3/4 with a .500 record easily not one of the worst teams in the majors.

The Jays needed everything to go right and everyone to perform at the top of their ceilings to be WS contenders and instead they have had almost the opposite happen which often results in the basement.

[KelVarnsen]

MLB ERA/Innings per start chart for last 30 days.

[ben voyonsdonc]

I think that Gibbons is the one who will take the fall. Is it his fault? Probably not but they can't move most of their underperforming talent and AA is not going anywhere. I agree with Moon that I can't see Rogers firing AA after they committed to him with the Marlins trade. You can't really blame AA for making a trade that almost 100% of the people were giving him props for making at the time. The fact that the players have underperformed reflects more on the player and the coaching than it does on AA.

If the Blue Jays were looking to make a trade, I'd break the team down into 5 tradeable categories in terms of their value:

- Performing young(er) players: Lind, Cecil, Redmond, Loup, Rogers (still not sold on him though)
- Well performing veterans: Janssen, Bautista, Encarnacion, Delabar, Reyes
- Underperforming young(er) players: Lawrie, Arencibia, Bonifacio
- Adequately performing veterans: Rasmus, Cabrera, DeRosa, Davis, McGowan (he's 31!)
- Underperforming veterans: Dickey, Buerhle, Johnson, Oliver

Obviously, the players that would fetch the highest return would be the well-performing veterans and well-performing young players. However, trying to trade away a younger well-performing player is a huge risk and could only be justified by a good return in terms of prospects or roster players.

With the underperforming vets, you can dump them but unless you are getting a reasonable return, you might just wait until next year to see if things get better. For Johnson, an impending free agent, I think that the Jays can hold onto him until the end of the season and try to sign him to a lowball contract for next year or let him walk.

[moon]

Lind is 30 so probably out of young category and I think he Jays need to make a QO of around 14 million to keep Johnson so tough to sign him to a lowball contract and hard to see him picking TO if they let him go without the QO and he is a FA.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Lawrie is going back to 3B full time. Nice to see them tinkering with the infield in the middle of a horrendous losing stretch. I just don't really have much faith in Gibbons or AA at this point. Lawrie should be left at 3rd and they should find a natural 2nd baseman, not screw with Brett even more at such an early stage of his development. He is trying to get his hitting in order, now he has to learn an entirely new position on the infield in the middle of the season? Just so ridiculous and poorly managed.

[KelVarnsen]

I am not creating a series thread for the rest of the season. If anyone else wants to, go ahead.

[bomber317]

Originally Posted by KelVarnsen

I am not creating a series thread for the rest of the season. If anyone else wants to, go ahead.

You should create a drinking series thread.

Every time JPA strikeouts
Every time JPA has a passed ball
Every time a Blue Jay swings at consecutive pitches in the dirt
Every time a Blue Jay is out when the bases are loaded.
Every time Laurie or Bautista argues balls/strikes
7 Shots Minus the number of Innings a starter pitches.
etc...
etc...
etc...

You might need a lot of liquor/beer though.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by bomber317

You should create a drinking series thread.

Every time JPA strikeouts
Every time JPA has a passed ball
Every time a Blue Jay swings at consecutive pitches in the dirt
Every time a Blue Jay is out when the bases are loaded.
Every time Laurie or Bautista argues balls/strikes
7 Shots Minus the number of Innings a starter pitches.
etc...
etc...
etc...

You might need a lot of liquor/beer though.

How about:

Every time Bautista pops it up or hits a shallow fly ball.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Originally Posted by bomber317

You should create a drinking series thread.

Every time JPA strikeouts
Every time JPA has a passed ball
Every time a Blue Jay swings at consecutive pitches in the dirt
Every time a Blue Jay is out when the bases are loaded.
Every time Laurie or Bautista argues balls/strikes
7 Shots Minus the number of Innings a starter pitches.
etc...
etc...
etc...

You might need a lot of liquor/beer though.

Every time Lawrie hit a ground ball out to 3B.

[Machiavelli]

Every time the camera pans to Gibbons looking clueless and carefree in the dugout.

[puffnstuff]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

Every time the camera pans to Gibbons looking clueless and carefree in the dugout.

Here are some of the things I think Gibbons is actually thinking about during the games...

'I can't believe Im being paid to be here, these are great seats'

'how have I NOT been fired yet?'

'where is the hot dog guy?'

'where's that Kawasaki kid? He's hilarious'

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

- Underperforming veterans: Dickey, Buerhle, Johnson, Oliver

That's the season right there. You go and get 3 guys who are established top of the rotation starters and they perform so badly that if you had a decent pitching prospect you'd probably replace all 3 of them.

Add the injuries to Morrow and Happ, and the entire rotation has given this team sweet #### all.

Where is Romero? Anyone? Bueller? If his career wasn't over he'd have a shot right now to replace someone.

Drabek and Hutchison (both showed adequate abilities as starters last year) still recovering from Tommy John surgery. They could also replace some of these guys.

The fact that Rogers is pitching quality starts into the 6th and 7th inning after beginning the year as a borderline middle reliever is nothing short of a miracle.

What can you do when the starting pitching on this team has been a disaster ever since Halladay left? (during his tenure the rotation wasn't top notch either)

[flames_fan_down_under]

How many drinks is that so far? Shallow pop fly for Jose in the first and the (MLB leading) home run allowed by R.A.?

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Cy Young winner my ass.

[Machiavelli]

EE grandslam! He's amazing!!

[Cali Panthers Fan]

EE is really underrated. Everyone talks about Reyes and Bautista and Lawrie, but without EE this team would be the worst team in the league. So glad he panned out last year as the hitter he always should have been.

[Sylvanfan]

Rumors that the Rangers have asked about Bautista and Encarnacion. Maybe it is time to shake up the clubhouse and move a guy like Bautista? It would be a surprising move...but at this point his production is declining. Maybe injecting a guy like Gose and getting a couple prospects may benefit the organization.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

I would only do that if it meant getting Yu Darvish in return. You only move an all-star for another all-star.