Tory MPs divided as fetal-rights motion defeated in Commons

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Rerun

I think he's saying abortion is a pretty crappy way to practice birth control. I'm pro-choice but I have no problem with that statement. It is a crappy form of birth control and I have absolutely no respect for women who repeatedly do it.

"What form of birth control are you using? Condoms? The pill?"
"Abortion."
-Said nobody ever

[Senator Clay Davis]

Rerun hasn't exactly been the model of showing respect towards women. Pretty sure he started that whole women suck at driving thread did he not?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by The Goon

Rona Ambrose says she voted in favour of the motion as she was worried about "sex selection abortion".

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/p...motion-ambrose

Laughable.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Azure

I know a lot of people who feel like this but realize that the issue is a lot more complicated.

Like Daradon said, if you create a law that outlaws abortion except in medical emergencies, you are starting down a slippery slope where women's rights are at risk.

On another point, I find it highly annoying when people call this 'debate' a great waste of time. We're talking about the potential life of a human being. Its not a waste of time.

Well to clarify I wouldn't just use it in medical issues, (or outlaw it at all, as was my point) there are many many other reasons. And the slippery slope argument could be used however you decided to legally divvy up the reasons. I think you know what I meant though, and was just making an example to illustrate my point of putting limits on abortion, I just don't want your paraphrasing to start people coming at me for something I didn't quite say. So I'll clear that up right here.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

"What form of birth control are you using? Condoms? The pill?"
"Abortion."
-Said nobody ever

While it may not be a proactive choice, I can see how it would be a reactice choice.

I believe that is what he is saying.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

"What form of birth control are you using? Condoms? The pill?"
"Abortion."
-Said nobody ever

Touche. Some men are just as bad as some women.

Anyways, to modify my point, I have no respect for anyone who repeatedly uses
abortion as a form of birth control.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Rerun hasn't exactly been the model of showing respect towards women. Pretty sure he started that whole women suck at driving thread did he not?

Hey... a lot of women do suck at driving.... and a lot of women agree with that statement.
A lot of men suck too... we just suck differently.

[MarchHare]

Anyways, to modify my point, I have no respect for anyone who repeatedly uses
abortion as a form of birth control.

You're missing the point. Nobody is voluntarily choosing to use abortion as a form of birth control. There's not a single person who has ever said, "I don't need to use birth control, I can just get an abortion." That's simply an attitude that doesn't exist. Abortion is a last-ditch fallback when birth control fails (no method is 100% successful even when used properly) or wasn't available (e.g. rape).

Incidentally, there's a very strong inverse correlation between rates of abortion and availability of comprehensive sex education programs that teach a wide variety of birth control methods. That is, when students have more knowledge about birth control, they statistically have fewer abortions. It makes you wonder why there's such a strong overlap between the people who are most strongly opposed to abortion and the people who are most strongly in favour of "abstinence only" sex education. If your goal is to minimize the number of abortions performed, then the best method of achieving that objective is to provide easy access to birth control and empower students with the knowledge to use it correctly.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Abortion is the last resort for most women. If they have unprotected sex and are worried about pregnancy, they usually go for the Plan B every time, not to the abortion clinic.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Abortion is the last resort for most women. If they have unprotected sex and are worried about pregnancy, they usually go for the Plan B every time, not to the abortion clinic.

what is plan B?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

what is plan B?

"Breakfast in bed."
- Daniel Tosh

[Senator Clay Davis]

Plan B is also referred to as the morning after pill. It's essentially a form of birth control for use after intercourse, just in case you forget. Hence the name Plan B.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

You're missing the point. Nobody is voluntarily choosing to use abortion as a form of birth control. There's not a single person who has ever said, "I don't need to use birth control, I can just get an abortion." That's simply an attitude that doesn't exist. Abortion is a last-ditch fallback when birth control fails (no method is 100% successful even when used properly) or wasn't available (e.g. rape).

Are you seriously saying that there are men out there who don't say "I don't want to wear a condom so I'll take my chances and if she gets pregnant there is always the abortion option"?

[Bertuzzied]

Plan C is jumping up and down for 30 minutes until the fetus self aborts.

[Knalus]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Yes it is a waste of time. When there are issues, much bigger and more important issues, that affect actual, living, breathing human beings, you know, me and you, then this is indeed a waste of time. Health care has issues in Canada, Calgary and Alberta as a whole needs massive injection of infrastructure money, but here we are talking about abortion? Yeah no, its a distraction and a waste of time, period.

Justice is never a waste of time.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Plan B is also referred to as the morning after pill. It's essentially a form of birth control for use after intercourse, just in case you forget. Hence the name Plan B.

Works well as long as you do it.... unfortunately there are people out there who have difficulty remembering to put on their own socks in the morning, let alone going to the doctor to get a prescription for plan b and then filling the prescription and using it.

I knew a single girl who had 4 abortions. She rarely ever practiced any recognized form of birth control (for many reasons according to her) except the abortion method.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Plan C is jumping up and down for 30 minutes until the fetus self aborts.

Plan C, is rusty coat hanger.

[oilyfan]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Works well as long as you do it.... unfortunately there are people out there who have difficulty remembering to put on their own socks in the morning, let alone going to the doctor to get a prescription for plan b and then filling the prescription and using it.

I knew a single girl who had 4 abortions. She rarely ever practiced any recognized form of birth control (for many reasons according to her) except the abortion method.

You know a single girl? I know many families, probably more than 10 that were forced together because of an unplanned child and who have the worst child rearing abilities and home environment.

Your example is just as bad mine, extrapolating from limited personal experience to the entire population is very dangerous.

[oilyfan]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Plan C, is rusty coat hanger.

You guys are trivializing a very serious topic.

Plan C, of course, is hoping that it was legitimate rape

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Knalus

Justice is never a waste of time.

Without getting into whether its justice or not, you then must also be in favor of allocating the necessary government resources for that child to have a good upbringing yes? Or is it the usual conservative line of "You better have that damn child....but once its born your on your own?"