A little bar fight? Sounds like a sucker punch to me. He hit the person trying to help the other person off the ground, a total and complete D-Bag move. Shows a complete lack of discipline on top of being a dick. And being drunk is not an excuse, otherwise you must then excuse all actions that happen when a person is drunk, including date rapes and sexual assaults. Alcohol is not an excuse, its just one drunks like to use because its convenient.
Though I do expect one of his buddies to try and fall on this grenade for him.
Whoa.
While I'm certainly not excusing what he did because he was drunk, there is absolutely no way you can even put this in the same stratosphere as date rape or sexual assault. Give your head a shake. An orbital bone will heal in due time, the scars of rape/sexual assault last a lifetime. I understand you're trying to make a point that alcohol isn't an excuse, but that is just a ridiculously terrible comparison.
I would easily forgive my friend/brother/father if they sucker punched some guy in the face. I would never forgive them if they date raped or sexually assaulted someone. The difference between those actions is larger than words can express.
My point is that if someone feels being drunk is an excuse for a sucker punch (which I certainly don't), you cannot say they have to agree that its also an excuse for rape/sexual assault.
Last edited by Hells Bells; 08-08-2012 at 08:11 AM.
While I'm certainly not excusing what he did because he was drunk, there is absolutely no way you can even put this in the same stratosphere as date rape or sexual assault. Give your head a shake. An orbital bone will heal in due time, the scars of rape/sexual assault last a lifetime. I understand you're trying to make a point that alcohol isn't an excuse, but that is just a ridiculously terrible comparison.
I would forgive my best friend/brother/father if they sucker punched some guy in the face. I would never forgive them if they date raped or sexually assaulted someone.
The difference between those actions is larger than words can express.
So some behaviour is completely condonable when drunk? Even though that same behaviour would be condemned if sober? That just doesn't add up to me. If you excuse actions because of being drunk, then when does it stop? Being drunk is not an excuse for horrible behaviour, period. I don't condone anyones actions when drunk, because being drunk was a choice, as was choosing to sucker punch this guy. If you are condoning this because he was drunk, would you condone if it he punched your brother or your dad and broke their orbital bone? Likely not. Alcohol is a convenient, albeit piss poor, excuse for terrible behaviour. Using the "drunk and boys will be boys" line is sad.
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I never said such a thing. But in my particular community it is more prevalent in the native population.
Why do people in this place feel the need to turn you into a racist or bigot just for making an observation. I hate to be the bearer of bad news here but certain ethnic groups are more prone to alcoholism problems than others and with liquor comes violence.
The reason is some people are overly sensitive. Unfortunately die to the treatment of various groups on the past they get a free ride now. I have traveled a lot and tend to make the same observations. These issues of drinking and violence are not issues of culture or color but are societal problems. A lot of less fortunate areas of western canada have dense native populations and the issues of drinking and fighting are issues off poverty. The same problems exist in ot
her areas just with different "cultures" the problem we have today iss unless you have bleeding heart for these people u r labeled a biggot.
I don't think anybody or any culture has a propensity to certain behaviors but I do not see the harm in making an observation as long as you don't make generalizations of a certain type of people. You guys need to lighten up and stop singling out alberta beef and cowtown.
So some behaviour is completely condonable when drunk? Even though that same behaviour would be condemned if sober? That just doesn't add up to me. If you excuse actions because of being drunk, then when does it stop? Being drunk is not an excuse for horrible behaviour, period. I don't condone anyones actions when drunk, because being drunk was a choice, as was choosing to sucker punch this guy. If you are condoning this because he was drunk, would you condone if it he punched your brother or your dad and broke their orbital bone? Likely not. Alcohol is a convenient, albeit piss poor, excuse for terrible behaviour. Using the "drunk and boys will be boys" line is sad.
If you actually read my post, you'd see that I believe alcohol is not an excuse for anything. But I'm not going to label someone that excuses a sucker punch as someone that would also excuse rape. You can say that someone that excuses one thing has to excuse everything, that is simply your opinion and I do not agree with it.
All that other crap about someone punching my brother or father is pointless because I said so myself that I would never condone anything by anyone because they are drunk.
Anyway, lets just agree to disagree as neither one of us is going to change our opinions on the matter.
Last edited by Hells Bells; 08-08-2012 at 08:34 AM.
Love how these types of things digress when their isnt any real hockey news to deal with. All the speculation has created a spiral of topics like drinking, racism, rape. The truth will come out in time, and I, for one, will keep an open mind until then.
Sounds like some jackhammer wanted to test Ferland as a known scraper and he was probably goated into a fight.
I think you're overestimating how well known Michael Ferland is outside of Brandon or NHL prospect geeks. I'd be surprised if 20 people in all of Cochrane know who Ferland is, let alone can recognize him in a bar.
...as long as you don't make generalizations of a certain type of people.
Yeah, that is sort of the whole trick.
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Was that the canadian you or your Russian alter ego speaking? I hope when hockey starts we. Can avoid these sensitive topics.
That was Kuato speaking.
In any event, why avoid sensitive topics? They're generally the most intersting, most important ones.
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"Life of Russian hockey veterans is very hard," said Soviet hockey star Sergei Makarov. "Most of them don't have enough to eat these days. These old players are Russian legends."
Personally, I disagree. I think "sexual" is much, much worse. And those are actually the only two words that come in front of assault in our criminal code...
In any event, why avoid sensitive topics? They're generally the most intersting, most important ones.
Kuato is all good in my books. U r right about the sensitive topics being most interesting ones, I just get weary about racial and preferences related topics as some people (I'm not saying here) tend to go off the deep end and end up hurting other peoples feelings.
CP pet peeve lately: when people take another posters comparison, and completely distort it into something extreme.
Example "if being drunk is an excuse for sucker punching someone, then it is an excuse for all kinds of behavior (robbery, rape, murder). It isn't an excuse, we are all responsible for our actions, intoxicated or not. "
"What? you are how can you compare a punch and rape and murder! They are completely different!"
Well, he wasn't saying they were the same. He was saying that if alcohol is an excuse, it's an excuse. It shouldnt be. We are still responsible for our actions. That is what where he was drawing the comparison, and it had nothing to do with severity of the act. That is kind of the point.
It is possible to draw a parallel on a certain point, but which is not all encompassing. Many people haven't seemed to figure this out yet.
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Well, thanks for making my reply for me Ryan Coke haha. That was ultimately my point, that alcohol isn't why this happened, he did this because this is who he is, and using being drunk as an excuse for his behaviour is ignoring the real issue. How you act when drunk is the true indicator of who you are. It's easy to put on a facade or a charade when sober, but when you lose self-control (as almost always happens when drunk), then you display who you are and what your character is. Saying you did something drunk that you wouldn't do sober is disingenious. You would do it sober, you're just afraid of being judged, but when you're drunk in your mind you believe you can go to the "I was drunk, I had to much to drink" etc... card and be forgiven, or you simply don't care anymore about being judged.
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If this is actually a case of assault, and assuming Ferland gets off with a hand slap as often seems to be the case with these types of situations... Let's hope he uses this as a wake-up call and gets his act together. People screw up sometimes and make bad decisions, but if the Flames were my organization I'd be expecting my players to be role models on and off the ice, this kind of stuff should NOT be tolerated.
Well, thanks for making my reply for me Ryan Coke haha. That was ultimately my point, that alcohol isn't why this happened, he did this because this is who he is, and using being drunk as an excuse for his behaviour is ignoring the real issue. How you act when drunk is the true indicator of who you are. It's easy to put on a facade or a charade when sober, but when you lose self-control (as almost always happens when drunk), then you display who you are and what your character is. Saying you did something drunk that you wouldn't do sober is disingenious. You would do it sober, you're just afraid of being judged, but when you're drunk in your mind you believe you can go to the "I was drunk, I had to much to drink" etc... card and be forgiven, or you simply don't care anymore about being judged.
Alcohol does more than make your care less about being judged, it makes you react to greater extremes due to inhibited self control and judgement. If someone gets you angry when your sober, your self control prevents you from hitting them. When someone gets you angry when you're drunk, that self control might not be there. Saying that being drunk brings out who you really are is nonsense as self control and will power probably define who you are more than any other characteristic. It's true that it brings out your emotions and brings out your natural tenancies and desires, but who you are is the complete package including your self control.
Hitting someone in a moment of anger is something that could happen to anyone, especially when your judgement and self control are inhibited by alcohol. Raping someone is not comparable because it requires more deliberate effort. You can't rape someone in a moment of anger.
Alcohol could very well be why this happened, especially if someone was breaking at him. Is it an excuse? No, because he chose to drink knowing it would weaken his self control. Is it a factor? I have no doubt.
Well, thanks for making my reply for me Ryan Coke haha. That was ultimately my point, that alcohol isn't why this happened, he did this because this is who he is, and using being drunk as an excuse for his behaviour is ignoring the real issue. How you act when drunk is the true indicator of who you are. It's easy to put on a facade or a charade when sober, but when you lose self-control (as almost always happens when drunk), then you display who you are and what your character is. Saying you did something drunk that you wouldn't do sober is disingenious. You would do it sober, you're just afraid of being judged, but when you're drunk in your mind you believe you can go to the "I was drunk, I had to much to drink" etc... card and be forgiven, or you simply don't care anymore about being judged.
Good grief. There are virtually no facts about this case, so you make them up. Then equate your made-up version of reality to a whole bunch of other terrible crimes.
In this case, it was a fight outside a bar at 1:10am. Crap happens. I'll wait to see exactly what happened. The "story" basically says that a buddy came over to assist his friend and got punched in the face. The version on CP is that the victim was huddled over the near-lifeless body of his beaten friend encouraging him to "stay with me...don't go to the light...come back..." when Ferland callously slammed him in the head with a lightpost he uprooted while in a drug-addled rage.
Fine, I exaggerate - but did you consider that "assist a friend" was for another drunk guy to pile in to the fracas and get his face broken. Isn't that as much a possibility than your equally fictitious version of events? Nah, it has to be Ferland's truly evil hidden inner character manifesting in a drunken "D-Bag move."
Your bolded bit above is such a pile of horse manure it warrants no rebuttal.
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