Ottawa launches Alberta counterterrorism unit

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

This thread needs a spot in the "How to derail a thread Hall of Fame"

\

Don't fool yourself, it was never close.

I know you're all waiting. It's organic, don't push it,

[Daradon]

I need to do the carpool thing. You will excuse my absence. Maybe one of the better fighters will jump in, maybe the thread will die. If any of you want to talk, my PM's are open and I'll come back.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Yes, the main link you backed up was you.

I would not stoop.

Okay, I have no idea what this is even supposed to mean.

Whatever though, I'm still waiting for you to provide any sort of proof that this INSET team is all about limiting the media and taking away our rights.

See that's how this is supposed to work, you make a claim, you back it up with facts/proof.

Not you make a claim, I ask you to prove it, you mumble something uninteligable.

[SebC]

Azure and Bring_Back_Shantz are basically making the arguments I would make. The oil sands are a strategic asset (in terms of both economy and energy - our planes and tanks don't run on solar power) and should be protected according.

[Senator Clay Davis]

As far as I can tell, I don't think anyone's suggesting we shouldn't protect the oil sands. The question I think is should we do whatever it takes to protect the oil sands, or should we protect them as best we can given our (as a country, since this is a federal issue) available means?

[Thrillingbroom]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

As far as I can tell, I don't think anyone's suggesting we shouldn't protect the oil sands. The question I think is should we do whatever it takes to protect the oil sands, or should we protect them as best we can given our (as a country, since this is a federal issue) available means?

One would imagine adding a team that already exists in other provinces to protect other important industries, would fall into the latter.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

As far as I can tell, I don't think anyone's suggesting we shouldn't protect the oil sands. The question I think is should we do whatever it takes to protect the oil sands, or should we protect them as best we can given our (as a country, since this is a federal issue) available means?

No it's not. To have that argument we would need to have a cost figure.

Your argument is essentially that without intelligence that there is an imminent threat, we don't need a tool to analyze the threat. Of course, it's entirely possible that we don't have intelligence because existing tools aren't strong enough, or that we do have the intelligence but it's sensitive and therefore won't be released to you.

You want to talk about return on investment, I suggest you read up about INSETs here: http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/secur/insets-eisn-eng.htm. Sounds to me like they exist to leverage () existing government assets.

[Senator Clay Davis]

How do you have to have a cost figure to answer that question? Either you will pay whatever it takes to protect the oil sands, which to me means infinity dollars (because at what point do you cap money if you're going to spend whatever it takes), or you have an established finite amount. US Defense is a perfect example; many conservatives want to spend whatever it takes to have the strongest military in the world, and that cost rises and rises and rises, but its been the best forever and most military people agree they can cut the budget, but they still spend more. Other conservatives want a reduction in the defense budget because that money can be put to better use (domestically, debt payments).

Is spending more on protecting the oil sands actually going to make them safe enough to be worth the money? (and to me that would mean if we spend double, its twice as safe; spend ten times, ten times as safe etc...). I just don't think the "threat" out there is all that great. Real environmentalists are not bombing pipelines because they can result in an ecological disaster, and why would they want that? If Native bands agree to the pipelines then why would they sabotage their ability to be making great money? The crazies who might actually do something shouldn't get the chance because the police should already be doing their job of investigating potential threats to the public.

Now my entire argument can be made irrelavent if there is no new money being spent here. If this is simply a redirection of existing RCMP resources into this new unit, then I can't really have a problem with that because its costing us nothing. But if it is a new expense it needs to be justified. To me what bothers me is why aren't the police already working together on these things? Why now do they need a special unit that if a new expenditure seems to me to be a waste? Our civil security agencies should already be working to stop threats, and shouldn't need a new unit to do so. Focusing on these types of things and not complete wastes like chasing low level drug people seems like a better use of existing resources.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Have you ever been attacked by a tiger?
Do you own any rocks?
If so I'd like to buy that rock!

Interesting choice.

In that scene, Lisa was actually arguing against building that ridiculous defence system to protect Springfield against bears. Then, when taxes were hiked to pay for it, its champion (Homer) bitched about his taxes.

I don't know if we need this or not, but wow, anyone even questioning the need for it has been called crazy, naive, stupid... Kind of upside-down in Alberta, when people questioning government spending are considered lunatics. I

[freedogger]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Speaking of silly arguments, the police don't have anything to do with protecting businesses. Private security companies do that. Police help after an incident, but the cops aren't at Wal-Mart making sure they don't get ripped off.

You nailed it. A lot of the pre-emptive captures in the states have been dubious bating ops where they basically train up happless fools to be terrorists and then arrest them. Queue the false flag ops to shut people like me up.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Yawn. If it's anything like the RCMP's IMET (Intergrated Market Enforcement Team), meant to patrol stock market related issues (like insider trading), you can fully expect this to be a one person team with a F150 and a cell phone.

At least in the summers. In the winter they will return to the east...

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Either you will pay whatever it takes to protect the oil sands, which to me means infinity dollars (because at what point do you cap money if you're going to spend whatever it takes), or you have an established finite amount. [blah blah blah]

The INSET is a team that connects and assists the RCMP, municipal police orgs., CSIS, border protection etc. to protect national security. Is that something we should have or not? This is obviously not something that will cost anywhere near the amount of money the assets it will protect are worth. Yes, our existing agencies should already be protecting us. The INSET is there to help them do that. This is more about how we protect the oil sands than it is about how much.

[transplant99]

Pure comedy in this thread by some....awesome.