One in three Calgarians ticketed for speeding last year

[freedogger]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

the reality is that if the police issued no tickets in a year, then we would all ahve to pay more tax to make up for the revenue.......

Really? What if we didn't have to pay for as many police officers manning speed traps, those who service multinova cameras, squad cars, police pensions, administration, traffic courts and so on. I am not saying get rid of speed enforcement completely, just scale it down to what the rest of Canada does.

Or how about this, what if we paid for the same amount of police officers but they spent their time doing things more useful to society? Like fighting crime, not trying to meet their ticket quotas.

Its the Hawthorne effect, or what you measure is what you get. Classic management FAIL. Number of tickets issued per officer is very easy to track and compare against other officers and month over month etc. What is hard to measure are crimes prevented, officer's taking the time to educate a young driver with a stern warning and so on.

Are Calgary drivers really that many times more speedier than Vancouver or Toronto? Are Calgary roads that much safer than Vancouver or Toronto? To both questions at best maybe just a little bit, but not to the degree that the number of tickets shows. It seems obvious that our Police force is not spending its time on the right activities.

[jar_e]

Originally Posted by freedogger

Really? What if we didn't have to pay for as many police officers manning speed traps, those who service multinova cameras, squad cars, police pensions, administration, traffic courts and so on. I am not saying get rid of speed enforcement completely, just scale it down to what the rest of Canada does.

Or how about this, what if we paid for the same amount of police officers but they spent their time doing things more useful to society? Like fighting crime, not trying to meet their ticket quotas.

Its the Hawthorne effect, or what you measure is what you get. Classic management FAIL. Number of tickets issued per officer is very easy to track and compare against other officers and month over month etc. What is hard to measure are crimes prevented, officer's taking the time to educate a young driver with a stern warning and so on.

Are Calgary drivers really that many times more speedier than Vancouver or Toronto? Are Calgary roads that much safer than Vancouver or Toronto? To both questions at best maybe just a little bit, but not to the degree that the number of tickets shows. It seems obvious that our Police force is not spending its time on the right activities.

You do realize Calgary's crime rate has been decreasing steadily and Calgary had one of its lowest murder rates in the past decade last year?

Bash cops for giving tickets, sure, but you imply that crime is rampant and is out of control and that cops are intentionally ticketing people and letting crime continue because they need to give someone a ticket. That's not even close to being true.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by jar_e

You do realize Calgary's crime rate has been decreasing steadily and Calgary had one of its lowest murder rates in the past decade last year?

Bash cops for giving tickets, sure, but you imply that crime is rampant and is out of control and that cops are intentionally ticketing people and letting crime continue because they need to give someone a ticket. That's not even close to being true.

That's actually not implied at all, especially the "crime is rampant and out of control" portion.

[jar_e]

Originally Posted by valo403

That's actually not implied at all, especially the "crime is rampant and out of control" portion.

He said police should do more useful things in society. I'm simply stating they are, its not as one dimensional as he believes it is.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by jar_e

He said police should do more useful things in society. I'm simply stating they are, its not as one dimensional as he believes it is.

And if these stats are accurate they should be doing more useful things, either that or there should be less spending in relation to speed enforcement. There's no logical reason why Calgary should have such a massively different level of offenses to other similarly situated cities.

[freedogger]

Originally Posted by jar_e

You do realize Calgary's crime rate has been decreasing steadily and Calgary had one of its lowest murder rates in the past decade last year?

Bash cops for giving tickets, sure, but you imply that crime is rampant and is out of control and that cops are intentionally ticketing people and letting crime continue because they need to give someone a ticket. That's not even close to being true.

I called it a management failure to be specific. So include City hall, AB legislature and the police executive.

I didn't say crime was rampant and out of control. I gave two options, either retire a large portion of the speeding enforcement establishment. Alternatively, make society even better than it is now by moving the speeding enforcement resources into something more beneficial to all of us.

Another thing, crime (rape, murder, assault) has been declining since biblical times. There's a good TED talk on it:
http://www.ted.com/talks/steven_pink..._violence.html

Cops can't take all the credit for it. Even so, I still would rather my tax dollars go to more crime cops rather than speed enforcers.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

I'll probably get flamed for this, but...

It's been an ongoing joke in BC forever. Alberta drivers are ridiculously awful drivers in terms of speed and not caring about weather conditions.

I used to live in the Kootenays and Alberta drivers would drive 100/kmph over the mountain passes like it was nothing. Just stupid.

No, I'm not trying to paint all Alberta drivers the same, but Alberta drivers are notoriously bad drivers (similar to Lower Mainland, BC drivers). So, no, this news is not surprising to me.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Pierre "Monster" McGuire

I'll probably get flamed for this, but...

It's been an ongoing joke in BC forever. Alberta drivers are ridiculously awful drivers in terms of speed and not caring about weather conditions.

I used to live in the Kootenays and Alberta drivers would drive 100/kmph over the mountain passes like it was nothing. Just stupid.

No, I'm not trying to paint all Alberta drivers the same, but Alberta drivers are notoriously bad drivers (similar to Lower Mainland, BC drivers). So, no, this news is not surprising to me.

And? That's a product of people coming from the city and having no idea how to drive in the mountains, I'm sure you could apply that to people from tons of places. I would expect that people who live in the middle of the mountain range would have a much better grasp on what was appropriate for the conditions.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

Originally Posted by valo403

And? That's a product of people coming from the city and having no idea how to drive in the mountains, I'm sure you could apply that to people from tons of places. I would expect that people who live in the middle of the mountain range would have a much better grasp on what was appropriate for the conditions.

I guess I just see it as common sense. When you come from the city to an unfamiliar terrain like mountain passes, it just makes sense to me to slow it down especially when there's snow and wet roads.

It just blows me away that nine times out of ten it is an Alberta driver that blows passed me at over 100/kmph going over the Salmo-Creston pass.

[freedogger]

Originally Posted by Pierre "Monster" McGuire

I guess I just see it as common sense. When you come from the city to an unfamiliar terrain like mountain passes, it just makes sense to me to slow it down especially when there's snow and wet roads.

It just blows me away that nine times out of ten it is an Alberta driver that blows passed me at over 100/kmph going over the Salmo-Creston pass.

I tend to drive faster on longer trips. You add hours to your destination enjoyment time. I have been on that stretch a few times but don't remember it that well. From what I remember it is a big hill with a passing lane on the uphill parts. Speed limit 90? If so, I probably do 110 plus or minus 10 depending on the road conditions. Maybe you are just getting old?

[Engine09]

I was nailed for 1 speeding ticket last year and got away with another on Deerfoot. Photo radar got me, got home and found that my plate was covered with snow.

This city is out of control, would rather see the police focus on drivers staring at their cell phones, failure to signal, and on and on.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by valo403

And if these stats are accurate they should be doing more useful things, either that or there should be less spending in relation to speed enforcement. There's no logical reason why Calgary should have such a massively different level of offenses to other similarly situated cities.

From what I can find, speeding ranks in the Top 5-10 reasons for fatal car accidents. Most of the other reasons I've seen can pretty much be lumped into "distracted driving". So since it looks like speeding and distracted driving are two of the biggest causes of vehicle accidents (fatal or not), then it's something the cops should very much be looking into.

Too bad giving someone a speeding ticket really doesn't seem to work on slowing folks down anyhow.

As for my 'favorite' police fishing trap, there's a single block playground zone leaving Elbow Tr going East on 58th Ave SW. It drops to 30, and the like nabbing folks there. I usually see them there once or twice a month.

[jar_e]

Originally Posted by valo403

And if these stats are accurate they should be doing more useful things, either that or there should be less spending in relation to speed enforcement. There's no logical reason why Calgary should have such a massively different level of offenses to other similarly situated cities.

White Tiger already touched on it, but more people died in Calgary from motor vehicle collisions than homicides last year.

You can argue whether or not enforcement is working, but there's a reason why its a priority for police when people continually die from traffic related incidents.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by freedogger

Or how about this, what if we paid for the same amount of police officers but they spent their time doing things more useful to society? Like fighting crime, not trying to meet their ticket quotas.

How many murders are there in Calgary in any given year? How many traffic fatalities?

Somebody said it earlier; most of the time the police catch those who are not paying close enough attention to the road. I speed a lot; and go through some sort of speed enforcement zone a couple of times per week. I have 2 tickets within 10 years; and both of those I deserved because I wasn't paying close enough attention to notice the police.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

Originally Posted by freedogger

I tend to drive faster on longer trips. You add hours to your destination enjoyment time. I have been on that stretch a few times but don't remember it that well. From what I remember it is a big hill with a passing lane on the uphill parts. Speed limit 90? If so, I probably do 110 plus or minus 10 depending on the road conditions. Maybe you are just getting old?

I'm 23 years old haha.

I understand why Albertans drive fast. It's not that dangerous driving in Alberta. It's all flat.

I just think it's extremely stupid driving the way you do in BC. Alberta, I understand. In BC, that's just plain dumb.

And that argument about adding hours to your destination enjoyment time? You can't enjoy it if you never get there. I just think Alberta drivers should slow down over mountain passes because it's not only putting themselves in danger, it's putting other drivers in danger as well because of tail gating, passing when it's not safe, speeding, etc.

I think it's hilarious that 1 in 3 Calgarians were ticketed because it just further adds evidence to the opinion that Alberta drivers are some of the worst in the country, certainly in Western Canada.

[STeeLy]

Originally Posted by jar_e

White Tiger already touched on it, but more people died in Calgary from motor vehicle collisions than homicides last year.

Here's some food for thought.

Tickets handed out last year compared to the previous year.

Speed related deaths last year compared to the year before

Do handing out more speeding tickets reduce the number of speed related deaths?

[freedogger]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

From what I can find, speeding ranks in the Top 5-10 reasons for fatal car accidents. Most of the other reasons I've seen can pretty much be lumped into "distracted driving". So since it looks like speeding and distracted driving are two of the biggest causes of vehicle accidents (fatal or not), then it's something the cops should very much be looking into.

Too bad giving someone a speeding ticket really doesn't seem to work on slowing folks down anyhow.

As for my 'favorite' police fishing trap, there's a single block playground zone leaving Elbow Tr going East on 58th Ave SW. It drops to 30, and the like nabbing folks there. I usually see them there once or twice a month.

Okay great. If I accept that the speeding under 20km over the posted limit is bad and equals more death argument, I still don't think the speeding fine system is working. If it were, we would also be citing way fewer traffic fatalities in Calgary than Vancouver and Toronto. I still maintain that we would be better served by taking the resources off of the ticket book and onto something else, even if it were driving related.

But I don't accept it! Too fast for the conditions is an issue, but when has speed enforcement ever targetted this area. Too hard to prosecute. What is more a problem is faster or slower than the median speed. Is the heavily ticketed 10-20 over crowd really the deathly menace some of you would make us out to be? Reading the wikipedia piece on it doesn't convince me it is:


Motor vehicle speed
The U.S. Department of Transportation's Federal Highway Administration review research on traffic speed in 1998.[18] The summary states:

• That the evidence shows that the risk of having a crash is increased both for vehicles traveling slower than the average speed, and for those traveling above the average speed.
• That the risk of being injured increases exponentially with speeds much faster than the median speed.
• That the severity of a crash depends on the vehicle speed change at impact.
• That there is limited evidence that suggests that lower speed limits result in lower speeds on a system wide basis.
• That most crashes related to speed involve speed too fast for the conditions.
• That more research is needed to determine the effectiveness of traffic calming.

The Road and Traffic Authority (RTA) of the Australian state of New South Wales (NSW) asserts speeding (travelling too fast for the prevailing conditions or above the posted speed limit[19]) is a factor in about 40 percent of road deaths.[20] The RTA also say speeding increases the risk of a crash and its severity.[20] On another webpage, the RTA qualify their claims by referring to one specific piece of research from 1997, and stating "research has shown that the risk of a crash causing death or injury increases rapidly, even with small increases above an appropriately set speed limit."[21]
The contributory factor report in the official British road casualty statistics show for 2006, that "exceeding speed limit" was a contributory factor in 5% of all casualty crashes (14% of all fatal crashes), and that "travelling too fast for conditions" was a contributory factor in 11% of all casualty crashes (18% of all fatal crashes).[22]

[Dion]

[boogerz]

Originally Posted by Kryzsky

I was nailed for 1 speeding ticket last year and got away with another on Deerfoot. Photo radar got me, got home and found that my plate was covered with snow.

This city is out of control, would rather see the police focus on drivers staring at their cell phones, failure to signal, and on and on.

For sure. Both are just as big a problem as speeding and seldom enforced compared to speeding.

I seen people texting during red lights right next to cop cars, and the cops don't even bat an eye. What's the purpose of distracted driving law, if they aren't going to enforce it on a full-time basis?

[Dion]

The Deerfoot Trail should be renamed the Deerfoot 500.