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Old 11-23-2011, 01:01 PM   #121
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If the Jewish and the Muslims say you must cut it off - I would probably leave it on!
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Old 11-23-2011, 01:10 PM   #122
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I view it as genital mutilation. If I were king of the world, I would treat it like tattooing.

Once you're 18 (or at least old enough to get a fake ID) if you really want it, you can go for it. Can't imagine there would be many takers.
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Old 11-23-2011, 01:12 PM   #123
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I think people also keep missing an important point, as a man who is a fan of his healthy friend down there, are you really ok with taking any chances on an unnecessary procedure?

Also the covenant for the Jews, was the 1st one not working proof that snipping foreskins isn't going to do anything with your god? Hell the fact only boys do it just makes it more painfully clear this is nothing a human idea and not something divinely ordered; do you believers believe women are of no worth in their gods eyes. But that's a long topic of chauvinism in the old testament and of really all old religions.
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Old 11-23-2011, 01:28 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by Flashpoint View Post
If I were king of the world, I would treat it like tattooing.

Once you're 18 (or at least old enough to get a fake ID) if you really want it, you can go for it. Can't imagine there would be many takers.
If my kid wanted a tattoo at age 12 and I gave consent can he get one? should he get one? am I allowing him to be mutilated?

Would you equate it with piercing? I see many baby girls with their ears pierced. Obviously a parental choice.

At what point does the the parent not have the right to make a binding irreversible decision for their kid? If my kid had the choice he would stay at home watching Simpsons on TV all day eating junk food (or masturbating according to another thread).
Or, better yet, if he had the choice no way in hell does he get immunization shots. I am sure many adults do not get the flu shot, but I am also sure many kids do get it.

How about braces? I don't think kids are lining up for those but I do see adults with them. I like the idea of my kid choosing whether to have braces at 18 - that way I won't have to pay for them. He's getting stigmatized either way - brace face or hillbilly jim.

If I were king of the world 13 year-olds wouldn't get fancy tablets before their fathers!
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Old 11-23-2011, 01:34 PM   #125
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If I were king of the world 13 year-olds wouldn't get fancy tablets before their fathers!
Now the truth comes out, you're jealous!
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Old 11-23-2011, 01:41 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by Flashpoint View Post
I view it as genital mutilation. If I were king of the world, I would treat it like tattooing.

Once you're 18 (or at least old enough to get a fake ID) if you really want it, you can go for it. Can't imagine there would be many takers.
I'm having my eyelids removed next week, blinking is such an inconvienience (figured I'd get one more wink in).
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Old 11-23-2011, 01:43 PM   #127
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If my kid wanted a tattoo at age 12 and I gave consent can he get one? should he get one? am I allowing him to be mutilated?
Nope. You can't get tattooed until you're 18 in most places regardless of parental consent.

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Would you equate it with piercing? I see many baby girls with their ears pierced. Obviously a parental choice.
No, I wouldn't equate it to piercing. It's a permanent change, and more invasive IMO.

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At what point does the the parent not have the right to make a binding irreversible decision for their kid? If my kid had the choice he would stay at home watching Simpsons on TV all day eating junk food (or masturbating according to another thread).
You as a parent cannot legally choose to have your infant child covered in tattoos. It's painful, permanent, and merely for aesthetic purposes. You have the right to raise your child as you see fit - but you can't mutilate them. I would treat circumcision the same way.

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Or, better yet, if he had the choice no way in hell does he get immunization shots. I am sure many adults do not get the flu shot, but I am also sure many kids do get it.
That's pretty much universally acknowledged as a societal good, not restricted to the individual, nor merely for aesthetics.

Your braces analogy is actually a pretty good one - it's not harmful to others, is painful to the child (both emotionally and physically) and is for the most part only for looks. But I think the irreversable nature of circumcision and the fact it's only done on helpless infants sort of negates consent. Not sure you have many struggling kids being held down by an orthadontist and braces forcibly applied.

But I could be wrong about that I suppose.

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If I were king of the world 13 year-olds wouldn't get fancy tablets before their fathers!
Ok. I probably have a few wish list items above circumcision on my KOTW list too. Maybe that would make a good off topic thread...
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Old 11-23-2011, 01:45 PM   #128
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I'm having my eyelids removed next week, blinking is such an inconvienience (figured I'd get one more wink in).
Ok. Just don't do it to your kids! Let them choose for themselves how sensitive they want their eyes to be!
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Old 11-23-2011, 01:48 PM   #129
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Ok. Just don't do it to your kids! Let them choose for themselves how sensitive they want their eyes to be!
Absolutely not! I want them to look like me!
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Old 11-23-2011, 01:53 PM   #130
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Absolutely not! I want them to look like me!
Well, that's a good point. I hear girls won't kiss you unless you're looking directly at them at all times. I also heard about this one guy who woke up with gunk under his eyelid, and when his gf woke up next to him, she broke up with him because it was so gross.

So if you're looking for action, lose those lids!
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Old 11-23-2011, 01:55 PM   #131
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In Canada, you can most definitely get tattooed legally under the age of 18 with parental consent. It's just a question of whether the tattoo parlour will do it or not.
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Old 11-23-2011, 02:03 PM   #132
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In Canada, you can most definitely get tattooed legally under the age of 18 with parental consent. It's just a question of whether the tattoo parlour will do it or not.
I'm genuinely shocked to hear that. So as a parent you can tat up your kids in Canada if you can find a willing artist?
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Old 11-23-2011, 02:05 PM   #133
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I'm genuinely shocked to hear that. So as a parent you can tat up your kids in Canada if you can find a willing artist?
I'm pretty sure there's likely a minimum age even with parental consent, lol. I have known kids get tattoos at 16 years old with parental consent, though.
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Old 11-23-2011, 02:26 PM   #134
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Would you equate it with piercing? I see many baby girls with their ears pierced. Obviously a parental choice.
That GMG too. Who are you piercing your kid's ears for? Not them, they are too young to care. It's for yourself, to dress up your little play thing some more. Stick to putting them in stupid outfits, not putting needles through their body. Let them do it when they are 12 and begging for it, or whenever girls get into that kind of thing.

Hell, it's probably an exciting day for a girl to go get her ears pierced, you're taking that away from them too.
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Old 08-28-2012, 07:39 PM   #135
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BUMP to add that the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) has concluded for the first time that, overall, boys will be healthier if circumcised.

Link

Quote:
These found that, for men who have sex with women, circumcision reduced the risk of infection with HIV. (No protection was observed for men who have sex with men.) The South African and Ugandan trials also found that circumcision reduced infection rates for human papillomavirus (HPV) and herpes. The World Health Organization has already made circumcision part of its HIV-prevention strategy in sub-Saharan Africa, with a goal to circumcise 20 million men by 2015.

The AAP found that, in addition to preventing sexually transmitted infections, circumcision could reduce the rates of urinary tract infections and penile cancer, probably because the foreskin harbours infectious microbes as well as the immune cells targeted by HIV. The most common complications of circumcision — oozing, bleeding and infection — occur in 2% or fewer circumcisions and are easily treated. More serious complications are exceedingly rare, says Diekema. The task force also found no strong evidence that circumcised babies grew up with more urinary difficulties or sexual problems.
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Old 08-28-2012, 08:10 PM   #136
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BUMP to add that the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) has concluded for the first time that, overall, boys will be healthier if circumcised.

Link
Lovely - let's fire up this old chestnut again!!

Looks to me like the studies again confirm that if you're smashing flaps in the Congo - get yo self cut.
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Old 08-28-2012, 08:47 PM   #137
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BUMP to add that the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) has concluded for the first time that, overall, boys will be healthier if circumcised.

Link

not good for.........well...........several people.
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Old 08-28-2012, 09:17 PM   #138
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the answer to the OP's question to me is quite simple:

It is the parent's fault for initially making the choice to have their baby's genitals mutilated.
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Old 08-28-2012, 09:22 PM   #139
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I always wondered who was the first one to suggest circumcision. That person must`ve been bat-shart crazy.

`That thing flopping around, I`m going to CUT IT OFF`
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Old 08-28-2012, 09:26 PM   #140
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BUMP to add that the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) has concluded for the first time that, overall, boys will be healthier if circumcised.

Link
Intact is very critical of the AAP conclusion:

http://www.intactamerica.org/

The Policy Statement and Technical Report on Male Circumcision released today by the Task Force on Circumcision of the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) attempts to find justifications for recommending in favor of unnecessary surgery to remove healthy, functioning tissue from infant boys, but falls far short both in its ethical obligations to its members and their patients and in its presentation of the medical and scientific data.

The Task Force Report leans heavily on studies of sexually-active adult heterosexual African men and the role circumcision might play in ######ing female-to-male transmission of the HIV virus linked to AIDS. This is not surprising, considering the Task Force was headed by Dr. Susan Blank, who is not a pediatrician but an expert in sexually-transmitted diseases.

As a first observation, it is ethically abominable to justify unnecessary surgery to remove healthy tissue from an infant boy based on the possibility that he will engage in unsafe sexual behavior decades into the future. But the AAP’s own Report demonstrates the lack of applicability of the African studies to the realities of HIV in America.

Also left out of the Report is mention of the increasing opposition to circumcision among medical societies in Europe, where circumcision rates are 10 percent or lower in most countries and which have far lower rates of HIV than in the United States. In the Netherlands, Denmark, Germany, Finland, Sweden and elsewhere, medical societies have recommended against circumcision, and in some cases have begun efforts to instate legislation that would establish the surgeries as a violation of the human right of all baby boys to intact bodies, regardless of culture, religion, or parental choice.
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