Psycho Murdering Medicine Hat Girl attending Mount Royal U right now

[JohnnyB]

Edit: nm

[Draug]

I shouldnt have read this thread .... stupid me. Couldnt quit, like watching an accident... and now I have a sick feeling stomach.

I'm gonna go give my eldest daughter and her younger brother a big hug right now!

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by photon

I disagree, children are easily manipulated and twisted, adults even often can't cope with bad situations and abuse.

A person's brain isn't even done developing until they're in their 20's.

That's why we protect our children and nurture them and teach them while they're growing and learning how to be a part of society instead of just throwing them out there; because they aren't capable of dealing with things yet.

If someone is abusing them and filling their minds with garbage while they're developing their view of the world, why is it their fault if they turn out warped?

"Abused and manipulated, too bad suck it up Sally if you can't deal with a little sexual and psychological abuse too bad for you."

Most 12 year olds will believe anything an adult tells them.

[VladtheImpaler]

Who manipulated whom here? Jeremy the Werewolf is an immature ######, while she is a very smart girl. I don't think you can just assume that Jeremy was the "brains" behind this crime... For some reason she makes me think of that creepy X-Files episode with the identical homicidal girls (sorry can't remember the name of it...).

[ken0042]

A sentence review for a Medicine Hat, Alta., teenager who killed her parents and younger brother when she was 12 has been delayed for two weeks because of concerns about a newspaper report.

<snip>

Katherin Beyak, the lawer for Canada's youngest multiple killer, said the newspaper story might have compromised the teenager's rehabilitation plans.

Good- I hope this sends the message that society is not ready to take her back. I don't care who may have been "the brains" behind the operation; nobody should at the age of 12 should be able to look into the eyes of their little brother who is pleading for his life, and not realize what they were doing was wrong.

I don't know if I'd have it in me to kill a family member that I knew was about to become a zombie; let alone under non-Zombie Appocolypse situations.

[CaptainCrunch]

When I was having coffee with my dad at Chapters I spotted a book that someone had written about the case, going by a lot of the information that I quickly saw, there were two real concerns.

Her boyfriend was an utterly ######ed social outcast who was obsessed with a girl significantly younger then her, and she began planting ideas of killing her family and running away in his head constantly.

It sounded like she didn't show a whole lot of remorse through the trial and during her confinment.

She badgered and used her older boyfriend did most of the planning for the killing and if I remember from the book tried to recruit other accomplices to help kill her family.

I'm really not happy that she's out, even if it is a halfway house, but thats the system thats in place, and all you can do is hope that she's not a Homolka light in training. Here's hoping that they keep a close eye on her for the rest of her life.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by photon

People can change and break and become almost inhuman in the right circumstances.. any person, you or me, and we're adults.

Under the right circumstances? How about killing people because a guy in a white lab coat tells you to (Milgram Experiment)! Or torturing friends because you were given the job of security guard to roleplay (Stanford Prison Experiment). According to Cracked (take what you want from it), there are replications of experiments which state that, because said "scientest" tells you to, 80% of people will literally zap a REAL puppy to death.

Anyways, I'm fine with this. The intent of our prison system is for rehabilitation primarily, detention and punishment secondary. If she can prove she's rehabilitated and matured, I see no reason to keep her in jail. That being said, I would prefer they monitor her real close and bring her back if issues begin to appear.

[photon]

Originally Posted by kirant

Under the right circumstances?

Exactly and the things you mention (among others) show how people, when dehumanized, will act in inhumane ways.

To me it's a basic question.. if I had been in the exact same situation as whatever person had done whatever bad thing, would I have acted in the same way? If I had been in the same situation, having the same history (upbringing, situations of abuse, etc), would I have acted in the same way? If I had been in the same situation having the same history and having the same predispositions (DNA) would I have acted in the same way?

If I would have acted in the same way, then the "personal responsibility" doesn't actually exist, and it's a matter of a person reacting the way any person would in a given circumstance, and the focus should be on remediation not punishment.

If I would not have acted in the same way, then question is why. If I have the strength to overcome a situation, or the wisdom to see the consequences of my path, or the will power not to give into base motivations, or whatever, why do I have those abilities and others do not? Unless someone actually thinks that a person one day wakes up and says to themselves "you know what, I really need to twist my worldview and sense of morality to the point that I am a sociopath, now how do I go about that".

If a person's mind is broken, they need help, not a mob with pitchforks motivated by a misguided sense of "justice".

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by kirant

Under the right circumstances? How about killing people because a guy in a white lab coat tells you to (Milgram Experiment)! Or torturing friends because you were given the job of security guard to roleplay (Stanford Prison Experiment). According to Cracked (take what you want from it), there are replications of experiments which state that, because said "scientest" tells you to, 80% of people will literally zap a REAL puppy to death.

Anyways, I'm fine with this. The intent of our prison system is for rehabilitation primarily, detention and punishment secondary. If she can prove she's rehabilitated and matured, I see no reason to keep her in jail. That being said, I would prefer they monitor her real close and bring her back if issues begin to appear.

Isnt that the problem with the Young Offenders Act though? Lets say she doesnt "prove" she is "rehabilitated". Wont she still be released?

As for the publication ban, her name is shown on Wikipedia, for all the old ba77s who dont have a computer the ban is in place, for those of us who know how to use Bing or Google - haxors unite

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by kirant

Under the right circumstances? How about killing people because a guy in a white lab coat tells you to (Milgram Experiment)! Or torturing friends because you were given the job of security guard to roleplay (Stanford Prison Experiment). According to Cracked (take what you want from it), there are replications of experiments which state that, because said "scientest" tells you to, 80% of people will literally zap a REAL puppy to death.

Anyways, I'm fine with this. The intent of our prison system is for rehabilitation primarily, detention and punishment secondary. If she can prove she's rehabilitated and matured, I see no reason to keep her in jail. That being said, I would prefer they monitor her real close and bring her back if issues begin to appear.

Yeah, the truth is it's hard to find someone with a strong enough moral framework to be able maintain their sense of right and wrong when under the influence of an authority figure or part of group dynamics.

Not to say anyone is capable of doing what this girl did, she is on the extreme end of a dysfunctional child. That doesn't mean the same forces that create other, lesser dysfunction among children weren't the cause of her evil doings. I suspect they were.

12 years old is far too young to lock her up and throw away the key. Yes, she should know the difference between right and wrong at that point. However, there's a lot of nuance in right and wrong that a 12 year old can't grasp. For example, they can understand that hitting someone is wrong because it hurts them. But they aren't able to understand how or to what extent it hurts them.

I also don't agree that punishment should be the goal of a Justice system. Punishment is only useful as it acts as a deterrent. Beyond that, it is pointless to spend the money punishing someone harshly in what will probably make them only a harder criminal and less likely to assimilate back into society.

There seems to be a want out of posters here to achieve a mental victory over criminals through punishment. You want them to realize what they did was wrong and realize they are scum. You want to defeat them totally in the same way Big Brother defeated Winston Smith in 1984. That is a fool's errand. People can come to the realization on their own that what they did was wrong, but no amount of punishment will ever force this realization.

Don't waste your time, money and health making sure an evildoer suffers the 'correct' amount of time. Societies should punish according to what works as a deterrent and rehabilitate to reduce recidivism. Justice systems are bloated and inefficient when they try to achieve victory over the criminal through suffering.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by photon

Exactly and the things you mention (among others) show how people, when dehumanized, will act in inhumane ways.

To me it's a basic question.. if I had been in the exact same situation as whatever person had done whatever bad thing, would I have acted in the same way? If I had been in the same situation, having the same history (upbringing, situations of abuse, etc), would I have acted in the same way? If I had been in the same situation having the same history and having the same predispositions (DNA) would I have acted in the same way?

Sorry. Didn't explain myself clearly. I meant that even under normal circumstances, people can act inhumanely (with backing of the Milgram experiment)

[justkidding]

Looks like she is now being released into the community.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...w.html?cmp=rss

[DuffMan]

Karla Homolka has been out for awhile and apparently hasn't killed anyone else.

I think at the age this girl is at, a normal (school) etc environment for the rest of her teen years is best for everyone. I'd suppose she has a shrink appointment at least once a week for the foreseeable future, so hopefully gets the help she needs.

[CaptainCrunch]

I thinlk that there's a bit of a difference, Homolka was a sexual sadist and extremely manupulative. That kind of thing doesn't go away.

I think that part of this girls crime was based around emotional imaturity, but I have no doubt that this girl is cold and manipulative.

Will either of them re-offend, maybe not, though I feel frightened for Homolka's kid.

[taco.vidal]

This spring is also when J.R. completes her sentence. In May, she will make her final court appearance—in person in Medicine Hat—and then be a mostly free woman. If she doesn't commit any crimes for five years, the murders will be wiped from her record.

http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/the-a...=vicetwitterca

[Ozy_Flame]

No murder should ever be wiped from anybody's record. Period.

[woob]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

No murder should ever be wiped from anybody's record. Period.

Thanks to the Internet, even if it's 'wiped from her record', it'll always be there.

[bigtmac19]

So hard for me to accept the comment that she is not truly evil. I don't know how much worse that crime could be. Still makes me sick to think about that poor little boy.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by bigtmac19

So hard for me to accept the comment that she is not truly evil. I don't know how much worse that crime could be. Still makes me sick to think about that poor little boy.

While not a professional psychologist, I am an amateur one. Pretty obvious she was groomed and brain washed by her 23 year old boyfriend at the age of 12.

12.

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

While not a professional psychologist, I am an amateur one. Pretty obvious she was groomed and brain washed by her 23 year old boyfriend at the age of 12.

12.

Did you folldw the trials? The evidence suggests otherwise.