2023/24 Blue Jays Off Season Thread

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

The toughest division in baseball won zero playoff games this year

But 3 of the 6 playoff teams in the AL DID make the playoffs. Can't go to the dance if you don't have a ticket. And still a testament to this team for being able to make it, regardless of the many mishaps we had along the way.

Are there even any good UFAs this season to go after? It would be nice to get Teoscar back. Or a lefty bat that can actually hit home runs.

[SuperMatt18]

Yup Baltimore, Tampa Bay, and the Dodgers were 99+ win teams and they won the same amount of playoff games as the Blue Jays.

The team needs to add to continually get better, not blow it up.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Yup Baltimore, Tampa Bay, and the Dodgers were 99+ win teams and they won the same amount of playoff games as the Blue Jays.

The team needs to add to continually get better, not blow it up.

Blowing it up implies trading everyone which never happens. They’re not going to rebuild according to Shapiro, and why should they? They’re young enough where they should be putting it all together. It’s now about adding the proper additions and skills. Guys being able to get on base should be first priority. Power is needed but not stupid hacking like Teoscar, unless he’s brought in for the bench. Smart baseball is sorely needed.

[bluejays]

I really disagree with the assertion they’re just fine based on vanity metrics. It’s exactly what management would do when explaining away to their superiors. Their hitting was rough all year. Guys left on base game after game. Little to no adjustments in changing up to get on base. It’s a coaching deficiency with blame on the players capability as well. This was an issue coming into the playoffs and it showed more than ever in it, sample schmaple. It was happing all year. This is a hard division and they can’t lack in anything for it to work out. The bar isn’t making it in the playoffs anymore. It’s winning series’. They haven’t done that at all under Atkins watch and it’s because of glaring issues such as the batting this year.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by bluejays

Blowing it up implies trading everyone which never happens.

And even if they did fire Atkins and/or Schneider along with Martinez .etc which is what the disgruntled fans are mostly calling for that's not blowing it up either. It's maybe blowing up the coaching staff or front office but not he team itself.

The team would still be mostly intact other than the expiring contracts.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Hard to win without your best players contributing to expectation. I put more of the blame at the feet of Monoah and Vladdy.

[Jason14h]

The odds of having 4 starters make 30 starts again is basically zero

The Jays were one of the healthiest team in the league and managed to sneak out 89 wins (4 less then the previous season despite an easier schedule )

They have their regular lineup 2B (who lost his job in playoffs) , DH , 3B and CF all as FAs

They have a very weak farm system to replenish these loses and it’s a bad FA class with a lot of teams looking to buy

We just wasted a 4 years prime competitive window and have zero playoff wins to show for it .

Complete failure

Edit : and traded the 2nd best prospect in baseball to a team that went from 88 loses to 5 (and counting) playoff wins

[cross16]

I didn't expect Atkins to be fired either but IMO he should. Not because you need to blame him for something or because the Blue Jays are a bad team (I agree they are not) but for me I think he is showing some serious limitations that are going to prevent the Jays from getting over the hump.

- I think he's running this team a bit like a science experiment and that's what leading to all of these rumors/noise around the team about the poor communication. I think several players have taken steps backward, especially offensively, because of this.
- Doesn't sounds like he is firmly in control of baseball ops and that press conference of his sure confirmed this to me.
- For year's the Jays have had issues with situational hitting, RISP, lack of flexibility in their lineup and a consistent approach. Not only has he done nothing to address this (continues to bring in the same type of hitter) but in fact he actively made this worse last offseason. The Dalton Varsho trade didn't look great on paper and it's looking ever worse now.
- I get he built a very good rotation but he also did so by paying big for it in free agency. That's limited his ability to improve other areas of the team.
- Built a good bullpen, not great, but again how long did this take and at what expense?

I think Atkins did a find job of rebuilding this team but he's showing serious limitations of being able to build a championship caliber team. For those reason I think the Jays should have been looking for someone else.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by cross16

I didn't expect Atkins to be fired either but IMO he should. Not because you need to blame him for something or because the Blue Jays are a bad team (I agree they are not) but for me I think he is showing some serious limitations that are going to prevent the Jays from getting over the hump.

- I think he's running this team a bit like a science experiment and that's what leading to all of these rumors/noise around the team about the poor communication. I think several players have taken steps backward, especially offensively, because of this.
- Doesn't sounds like he is firmly in control of baseball ops and that press conference of his sure confirmed this to me.
- For year's the Jays have had issues with situational hitting, RISP, lack of flexibility in their lineup and a consistent approach. Not only has he done nothing to address this (continues to bring in the same type of hitter) but in fact he actively made this worse last offseason. The Dalton Varsho trade didn't look great on paper and it's looking ever worse now.
- I get he built a very good rotation but he also did so by paying big for it in free agency. That's limited his ability to improve other areas of the team.
- Built a good bullpen, not great, but again how long did this take and at what expense?

I think Atkins did a find job of rebuilding this team but he's showing serious limitations of being able to build a championship caliber team. For those reason I think the Jays should have been looking for someone else.

Agree completely, but the problem I have is bringing in a new guy will take time for the new guy to evaluate and change things. The best time to dump Atkins was in July or so. He’s got one last kick at the can here and he’s in an uphill battle with the issues he’s caused. It’s going to be hard for anyone but best for the person who got us here to right the ship considering he knows the players and where the deficiencies are. I’d love to get a new guy but he has the organization bent over at the moment with the lack of money and prospects available.

[bluejays]

The next shoe to drop will be the hitting coach. It’s a near guarantee. I bet behind closed doors they’re just waiting for the “report” from baseball ops to formalize it but it’s a done deal no doubt.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by bluejays

Blowing it up implies trading everyone which never happens. They’re not going to rebuild according to Shapiro, and why should they? They’re young enough where they should be putting it all together. It’s now about adding the proper additions and skills. Guys being able to get on base should be first priority. Power is needed but not stupid hacking like Teoscar, unless he’s brought in for the bench. Smart baseball is sorely needed.

It'll be interesting to see if they go shopping in FA again. They probably need another starter (assuming they don't sign Ryu again). If you don't sign him, Chapman, Merrifield or KK that leaves you $45.5 MM.

Kirk will get a big raise coming off his pre-arb years into an arb year. I'd think Vladdy stays about the same? Varsho maybe a bit of a raise, probably not significant.

But then you need a starting pitcher, a 3B, 2B, and OF. I'd be inclined to platoon 2B with Schneider/Biggio/Espinal/prospects and let someone try and win the permanent spot at low cost. Ideally you get Manoah back for the 5th SP role at low cost, although I imagine that bridge is pretty singed. If not try and fill 5th SP with a prospect/low cost trade.

It pains me to say it but maybe you do give Chapman $20MM with term (he's the best 3B available by far) and then go shopping for a power hitting outfielder, spend $20 MM on that. Give Hicks a raise and you're probably done.

Edited to add: Forgot about Belt and his 9.3 MM. Not sure what to do there. Since it isn't my money my first choice would be Ohtani as long term DH with a few years of SP mixed in. Obviously Rogers would have to OK upping the payroll by $40-50MM...

[KelVarnsen]

Atkins has made some truly terrible trades. The Varsho trade is truly god awful. Trading anything for Mitch White is just stupid.

He threw John Schneider under the bus.

He isn't a leader. He shouldn't be GM.

[GirlySports]

They're argument is 3 million fans and great ratings.

So you all know what to do.

[Kidder]

It’s funny, I was gung-ho during the ‘15 and ‘16 playoff runs.

And I tuned back in last year late in the season, and this year followed them pretty closely.

Not sure when my interest fizzled out after 2016 but if I go look at the roster for 2019, I don’t think I recognize 1/3rd of the names. Including their SS. Who??

So times like these it pays to be a fair weather fan. I could totally see me checking out, and waiting until their next resurgence to start watching games again.

You feel for the hardcore fans, who will be there no matter what. But I don’t feel bad personally for abandoning them. There’s enough misery being in that hardcore fan group for the Flames.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Freddy Galvis?
Yeah I have ZERO recollection of him either.

[Party Elephant]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Freddy Galvis?
Yeah I have ZERO recollection of him either.

Ya beat me to it! He had dreads and couldn't hit. I caught a game in Toronto with my dad that year that's how I knew that. He would make way for Bo later in the year. More notable players on the field that day were Vladdy, who hadn't yet hit his first HR so everyone was filming his ABs on their phones to no avail; also Teo, Jansen and Stroman.

[KelVarnsen]

Remember Saltalamacchia?

[Inferno]

I remember I was in Toronto for SummerSlam the weekend Galvis was put on waivers. I still remember seeing his banner outside Rogers Centre.

[KelVarnsen]

Hey John Schneider and Ross Atkins,

Rob Thomson just showed how to manage a baseball game.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by bluejays

I missed the first 20 mins of the presser but looks like payroll will be more or less what it was this past season dependent on revenue (which I believe was down).

But attendance AND ticket prices were up this season from last. I don't see how revenue could have gone down.