2017/2018 Trade Speculation and Rumors - Page 690 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

GoJetsGo · 06-10-2018, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Lol so no matter who the have they suck? They have a good list of prospects. Again this started with me saying Vancouver could swing for fences and get karlson and JT. Yes those 2 would excelerate the rebuild . They are 2 studs.

No, an unproven goalie doesn't make them any closer to being competitive. Not sure how this is difficult to understand.

They have a few good pieces up front, but their blue-line is dismal and there is nothing but question marks in net.

It's not "No matter who they have they suck"... it's that they suck right now and will for several years to come.

As I mentioned a few post back, they are several years away from being close to as good as the present (not very good) team Tavares plays for and may want to leave (for that reason).

Oling_Roachinen · 06-10-2018, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Lol so no matter who the have they suck? They have a good list of prospects. Again this started with me saying Vancouver could swing for fences and get karlson and JT. Yes those 2 would excelerate the rebuild . They are 2 studs.

I disagree strongly.

Top producing forwards for the Canucks last year:
Sedin
Boeser
Sedin
Horvat
Vanek
Gagner

They lost the Sedins and Vanek. Gagner is a bit of an enigma, had a decent comeback but wasn't long ago he was on his last legs in the league.

Horvat is a decent #2. Boesser looks like a top liner. That still really leaves 4 out of top 6 forwards, because Baertschi and Virtanen have not proven they can be that. If Pettersson can come in as a top 6 forward (and at this point there's no reason to assume otherwise, but prospects are prospects) and Tavares sign, that's still like 2 top six forwards they are missing.

And that's their team strength.

Edler is 32, a year away from UFA. There only true top 4 defenseman at this point.

Del Zotto was often a healthy scratch, a bit of a comeback like Gagner but you're not making noise with him in your top 4.

Tanev is fine, when healthy, but he hasn't been.

Stretcher and Hutton are still unproven, and not exactly a scary option. While Gudbranson never lived up to expectation.

Karlsson, obviously, would be a huge upgrade. But they aren't getting him for free this year.

Demko has potential, but with a single game in the NHL, that's all it is.

And then on top of all that, by the time they are looking to compete (maybe), they could be hit with the Luongo caphit special. In 2021, they could have 19M in cap hit for Eriksson, Gudbranson and a retired Luongo. Let that sink in for a minute.

TLDR: This was a bad team with the Sedins, Vanek and Boesser. It will be a bad team with just Boesser.

kyuss275 · 06-10-2018, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

No, an unproven goalie doesn't make them any closer to being competitive. Not sure how this is difficult to understand.

They have a few good pieces up front, but their blue-line is dismal and there is nothing but question marks in net.

It's not "No matter who they have they suck"... it's that they suck right now and will for several years to come.

As I mentioned a few post back, they are several years away from being close to as good as the present (not very good) team Tavares plays for and may want to leave (for that reason).

Not sure how this is difficult to understand... adding JT and karlson will not keep them as a bottom 5 team. If JT likes the prospects, and thinks getting karlson is a great move then I would think he would consider the Canucks. Yes it is all hinging on getting karlson but I mentioned that from the beginning .

Anyways yout posts come across as someone who seems high and mighty. Good luck with that.

Roof-Daddy · 06-10-2018, 07:33 PM

The Canucks finished with 73 points last year and have lost 3 of their top 5 scorers.

People actually believe Tavares might sign there?

That doesn't seem likely at all if he wants to have a chance at competing for a Cup starting next season, which would presumably be one of the biggest reasons he may leave the Islanders.

kyuss275 · 06-10-2018, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

The Canucks finished with 73 points last year and have lost 3 of their top 5 scorers.

People actually believe Tavares might sign there?

That doesn't seem likely at all if he wants to have a chance at competing for a Cup starting next season, which would presumably be one of the biggest reasons he may leave the Islanders.

It's a long shot but I think if they make a splash at the draft anything is possible. I would also have him singing in Vancouver before calgary

GoJetsGo · 06-10-2018, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Not sure how this is difficult to understand... adding JT and karlson will not keep them as a bottom 5 team. If JT likes the prospects, and thinks getting karlson is a great move then I would think he would consider the Canucks. Yes it is all hinging on getting karlson but I mentioned that from the beginning .

Anyways yout posts come across as someone who seems high and mighty. Good luck with that.

Always enjoy the personal digs when arguments fail.

So in order for one incredibly unlikely thing to happen, it hinges on another incredible unlikely thing to happen. Got it. Seems that much more likely when you put it that way.

Roof-Daddy · 06-10-2018, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyuss275

It's a long shot but I think if they make a splash at the draft anything is possible. I would also have him singing in Vancouver before calgary

Anything is possible I suppose, but him signing in Vancouver before Calgary seems like a ridiculous notion.

GoJetsGo · 06-10-2018, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyuss275

I would also have him singing in Vancouver before calgary

I really don't think the karaoke scene is going to sway him towards signing with a clearly inferior team.

Vinny01 · 06-10-2018, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyuss275

It's a long shot but I think if they make a splash at the draft anything is possible. I would also have him singing in Vancouver before calgary

Why would Vancouver be ahead of Calgary when Tavares is going to put a priority on winning?

Proven 20, 23, 24 year old star forwards and a very solid blueline. The Flames also have a very effective hard minutes centre.

The Canucks have a blueline in shambles and a couple of good young forwards in Horvat and Boeser. Petterson looks good but still has never played in the nhl.

kyuss275 · 06-10-2018, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

Always enjoy the personal digs when arguments fail.

So in order for one incredibly unlikely thing to happen, it hinges on another incredible unlikely thing to happen. Got it. Seems that much more likely when you put it that way.

I said that from the start.

kyuss275 · 06-10-2018, 07:46 PM

The city alone would make Vancouver more attractive. Sorry but calgary is not as nice as Vancouver . Flames arena is also an issue.

Not sure why I'm arguing this considering I think he stays on the island

Oling_Roachinen · 06-10-2018, 07:47 PM

What's the splash the Canucks would make this season though to entice Tavares?

Karlsson for what? It's not often you get a 28 year old Norris winner for nothing. If they give up, let's say Horvat, they're down to 1 legitimate top 6 forward - who hasn't played since injuring his back. Why would Tavares want to sign there? Doesn't it stand to reason he wants out of the Islanders because he's had enough with being one of two or three offensive threats on it?

If they give up the seventh pick plus, there goes the rebuild of bringing in young players to surround Tavares and Karlsson with.

And the saddest part is, even in their rebuild and their top players retiring, it's not like they have a good salary structure. When Karlsson needs to re-sign in a year, along with Boeser, you're looking at like 30M for the three (Tavares, Karlsson, Boeser).

But you have Eriksson making 6M. Sutter making 4.4M. Gagner making 3.2M. Gubdranson making 4M.

I mean, from top to bottom, I don't see how Vancouver could be anything but last on his team of places to go. Unless he just wants a lot of money, which then I'll enjoy them paying 15M to get Tavares there.

PepsiFree · 06-10-2018, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyuss275

I said that from the start.

So how exactly is Vancouver’s chance better than Calgary’s if their chance hinges on also acquiring the best defenseman available (who nobody has given a reasonable explanation as to how they do that) and basically going from the team they are, to a team with a shot, before even signing Tavares?

Oling_Roachinen · 06-10-2018, 07:54 PM

If Karlsson, pretty much by himself, is enough to get Tavares to sign - why not cut out the middle man?

Why doesn't Tavares just see if Melnyk is ready to open up the wallet for him? Better forwards, better pick, a year removed from reaching the playoffs.

Strange Brew · 06-10-2018, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

If you remove his last season, where he was near top 5 in scoring. And remove his playoffs, like when he lead the team in scoring - the team that won the Stanley Cup - or the other playoffs when he was a point-per-game player. Also don't look at anything he did in Toronto lead them in scoring for 6 of the 6 years he was there, often time playing with scrubs and still putting up a point-per-game pace.

Not looking at all of that he still has left a 70 point season. Which, that same year, would have lead the Flames by a large margin. I'm not sure I've seen a worse cherry picking of stats that still didn't get the point across.

Assume you’re referring to my post. I think Kessel is a great player just wondering how much you give up for him. 25, 26, 23 and 34 goals last 4 years. That is excellent but I sometimes feel the perception is that he is a 40 goal scorer.

What are you giving up for him?

Jiri Hrdina · 06-10-2018, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

Petterson has never played an NHL game, and their back end and goal are barren.

They are years away from being where NYI have been the last few years.

Check out Petterson's NHLE based on his performance in Sweden. There is a high probability he's going to be very good.
I agree their blueline is not good, but they are also a very attractive city and I think they can accelerate their re-build by attracting some quality free agents.

The Joe Levi pick was a whiff so far, as was the Virtanen pick - they'd be a lot scarier if they hadn't blown those.

Jiri Hrdina · 06-10-2018, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

Always enjoy the personal digs when arguments fail. .

Can you PLEASE learn to debate without making everything such a g-d argument.
No one is trying to fight with you.
Just take a breath. Not everything has to be a fight.

Why you heff to be mad?

oldschoolcalgary · 06-10-2018, 08:38 PM

the 'city is nicer' argument was always a weird one to me...

a) every city has nice areas that people don't realize
b) not sure how important it is for multi-millionaires who can pick up an live anywhere when the season is over.

JT can live in one of the greatest cities in the world in NYC if he wants too... vancouver is great... in the summer. Winter can be extremely dreary even if the temperature is relatively warm

Oling_Roachinen · 06-10-2018, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Assume you’re referring to my post. I think Kessel is a great player just wondering how much you give up for him. 25, 26, 23 and 34 goals last 4 years. That is excellent but I sometimes feel the perception is that he is a 40 goal scorer.

What are you giving up for him?

Last year Kessel was 7th overall in scoring.
Over the last 2 years combined he is 8th in scoring.
Over the last 3 years combined he is 15th in scoring.
Over the last 4 years combined he is 14th in scoring.
Over the last 5 years combined he is 11th in scoring.
Over the last 6 years combined he is 9th in scoring.
Over the last 7 years combined he is 8th in scoring.
Over the last 8 years combined he is 6th in scoring.

His worst season in recent years was 59 points in 82 games. That was still good for 11th in right-winger scoring according to NHL.com (66 points would have been good for 4th). Otherwise he's been in the top 10 RW since 2009-2010 season where he missed several games. Maybe most importantly, his 54 points in 61 playoff games is only behind Crosby in the last 3 playoffs.

Without getting into a debate about what elite is, he's 30 years old on an amazing contract, produces in the playoffs, is a right-winger who shoots right, and has been a top 10 producer in the league for a decade now. I'd give up a hell of a lot. If Brodie+Bennett is the foundation, there's no way I would say no. I'd throw in the 2019 first even if they didn't ask because I don't think my conscious would let me rip of a contemporary so badly.

GoJetsGo · 06-10-2018, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Check out Petterson's NHLE based on his performance in Sweden. There is a high probability he's going to be very good.
I agree their blueline is not good, but they are also a very attractive city and I think they can accelerate their re-build by attracting some quality free agents.

The Joe Levi pick was a whiff so far, as was the Virtanen pick - they'd be a lot scarier if they hadn't blown those.

He does look like a good prospect... but is still a question mark.

The last time they attracted a quality free agent it was Louis Eriksson.

My point was I don't think a couple nice forward prospects make them anywhear near ready to compete,

Vancouver is a nice city. You know what else is a nice city? New York. I think if that's a top priority he'd be staying put (which he still might).

When you get around to saying Tavares might like Vancouver's non-NHL playing prospects and how nice the city is, I think it underlines the point it's a reach to think he signs there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Can you PLEASE learn to debate without making everything such a g-d argument.
No one is trying to fight with you.
Just take a breath. Not everything has to be a fight.

Why you heff to be mad?

You do realize what you quoted was me replying to an insult with out returning it right?