2010 NFL Regular Season Thread - Page 69 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

rubecube · 10-23-2010, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OILFAN #81

Take Manning off Indianapolis and they would be lucky to win 4 games.

Give Brady the offensive line and skill players that Manning's played with his entire career and I guarantee his numbers are right up there with Manning's. The evidence of Randy Moss' first year with Patriots is pretty solid evidence of this.

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Brett Favre only won 1 Superbowl but will be ahead of both Elway and Brady as well.

He will because he's a media-darling, but he shouldn't be.

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In November 2009, they polled every single Hall of Fame QB in terms of the Manning vs Brady debate. It was 13.5 to 2.5:

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/339372...ts-nfl/page/2/

So the year when Brady is still recovering from major knee surgery, just one year removed from missing an entire season. How much would you want to bet that poll would look entirely different if it was given just before Super Bowl XLII?

Brady is the ultimate clutch quarterback. How many game-winning Super Bowl drives does Manning have? How about undefeated seasons? Like I said, Manning is a terrific regular season quarterback, Brady is a championship quarterback.

It's very similar to Marino vs. Montana. Montana isn't even close to Marino in terms of regular season success, but I know who I'd pick if my team needed a game-winning drive in the Super Bowl.

rubecube · 10-23-2010, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

No player in NFL history did more with less than John Elway.

I'd say Brady and Elway both have stake in that. The two best receivers Brady won Super Bowls with were Troy Brown and Deion Branch. Neither of those two will get close to the Hall of Fame. His best RB was an aging Corey Dillon.

And, to be fair, Brady won with those guys. Elway won with two absolutely stacked Broncos teams. On the flip side, those Patriot teams had way better defenses than any of the Broncos teams that Elway lost with. That and BB is a better coach than any of the guys that coached Elway.

Displaced Flames fan · 10-23-2010, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rubecube

It's very similar to Marino vs. Montana. Montana isn't even close to Marino in terms of regular season success, but I know who I'd pick if my team needed a game-winning drive in the Super Bowl.

Elway?

rubecube · 10-23-2010, 06:00 PM

I will also say that none of the QBs on that list sacrificed their bodies as much as Elway.

rubecube · 10-23-2010, 06:04 PM

OILFAN, I do agree that nobody thinks the game the same way Manning does, and I've always wondered if that's why he struggles in big-game situations. Maybe that intelligence causes him to overthink too much and worry about the result, instead of just playing the game.

Displaced Flames fan · 10-23-2010, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rubecube

OILFAN, I do agree that nobody thinks the game the same way Manning does, and I've always wondered if that's why he struggles in big-game situations. Maybe that intelligence causes him to overthink too much and worry about the result, instead of just playing the game.

Agreed.

I would also like to point out that I think Brady and Manning are amazing. Both of them.

Manning is not a complete QB though, and that may also be why he hasn't been to more super bowls.

rubecube · 10-23-2010, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Agreed.

I would also like to point out that I think Brady and Manning are amazing. Both of them.

Agree. I'm a big fan of both, but I'd rather have Brady on my team than Manning.

transplant99 · 10-23-2010, 06:38 PM

Quote:

He will because he's a media-darling, but he shouldn't be.

the man has every conceivable passing record in the history of the game....but shouldnt be rated higher than other QB's listed?

yeah...OK.

rubecube · 10-23-2010, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by transplant99

the man has every conceivable passing record in the history of the game....but shouldnt be rated higher than other QB's listed?

yeah...OK.

No, I don't think he should be rated higher than Brady, Montana, and Elway. I don't see how that's ridiculous.

rubecube · 10-23-2010, 06:54 PM

For the record, if I tend to rank the QBs like this:

1) Montana
2) Brady
3) Elway
4) Manning
5) Favre
6) Marino

transplant99 · 10-23-2010, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rubecube

No, I don't think he should be rated higher than Brady, Montana, and Elway. I don't see how that's ridiculous.

Ok thats your opinion, but it sure as hell isnt because he is a "media darling", the guy has earned every single accolade he gets.

You say no one has sacrificed their body like Elway...I say look at favre. IMO he is the single toughest QB the game has ever seen. He has played through so many painful injuries at the hardest position in the game for 19 straight years. Hell just look at his ankle during the NFC title game last year.

And the whole time he is doing this he is setting record after record after record for his position and garnered a few MVP's along the way as well.

Nope, he is only getting his accolades because the media likes him.

I mean really...is that not just goofy when you take a step back and think about it?

rubecube · 10-23-2010, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by transplant99

Nope, he is only getting his accolades because the media likes him.

I mean really...is that not just goofy when you take a step back and think about it?

Right, I see what you mean. Yes he deserves to be in the conversation.

Sylvanfan · 10-23-2010, 08:31 PM

Well right now the Colts would be a 4 win team without Manning, but that hasn't always been the case. He's had pretty good weapons for most of his career. I personally have to put Brady ahead of him because of Brady's ability to win those Superbowls.

Elway taking the Bronco's to 5 Superbowls is a pretty stellar accomplishment too, and as of right now I'd have to rank him ahead of both players. I might even argue that Elway should be there with Montana. The 49'ers surrounded Montana with a lot of probowl calibre talent on both sides of the ball.

Manning is probably the best stategist at the position. But the likes of Elway, and Farve to me have that intangible it factor to lay it all on the line. That blood and guts style, where Manning to me is a thinking man, and doesn't have that career defining moment of lowering the shoulder to get that extra yard to win a key game for his team. Guys like Montana and Brady have those clutch game winning drives in the big game to pull out the win, heck even Eli Manning driving the Giants down the field to knock of the Patriots is one of those epic career lasting images. Whereas for Peyton, the one standout would be the comback in the 2007 Championship game against the Patriots and it's more a series of plays and drives, not one.

ResAlien · 10-23-2010, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rubecube

For the record, if I tend to rank the QBs like this:

1) Montana
2) Brady
3) Elway
4) Manning
5) Favre
6) Marino

Brady ahead of Elway is lunacy. Elway carried terrible Bronco teams on his back for years. Top 2 are him and Montana in a coin toss for best ever with Manning a close 3rd.

rubecube · 10-23-2010, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ResAlien

Brady ahead of Elway is lunacy. Elway carried terrible Bronco teams on his back for years. Top 2 are him and Montana in a coin toss for best ever with Manning a close 3rd.

It's not lunacy. I tend to put a premium on rings, especially when 2 of those 3 rings, if not all 3, came because he drove them down the field for the game-winning scores.

trackercowe · 10-24-2010, 03:16 AM

Just to chime in something to the discussion, there are a lot of "What if's" to consider when considering the argument on who is the best quarterback.

What if Montana is traded a few years prior to winning his last two Super Bowls? Then Steve Young becomes the starter with the same weapons Montana has, and probably wins the same Super Bowls. If that happens where do you rank Young in the discussion, and Montana?.

What if Elway loses to Favre in 1997? Favre already holds all the records, so would two Super Bowl victories put him over the top in the discussion? Or would he of retired many years ago, and not claimed many of the records. Also, where does that leave Elway? Does Elway even come back the next season to beat the Falcons in 98? Or would Elway be like Marino with zero Super Bowl's to his name?

What if Peyton's little brother Eli doesn't complete that miracle play to David Tyree in XXLII? Well then Brady probably completes the perfect season, and has one ring per finger, and possibly three Super Bowl MVP's. If that happens, you really can't argue against him being the greatest.

You could even do What If's on if the Colts beat the Saints last year. Where would that rank Peyton with two Super Bowls, and a slew of MVP's to his name.

Or, what if Favre takes a knee against the Saints last year, and the Vikings kick a field goal, and play the Colts in the Superbowl? Favre vs. Brady. Whoever wins in anointed the greatest quarterback to ever live.

For the record, I would rank them Montana, Elway, Manning, Brady, Favre, Marino. But, that could easily change if either of the three active QB's add more titles to their name. I would however say that Elway was the best individual of the six, but Terrell Davis was the bigger reason they won the the last two Superbowl's.

transplant99 · 10-24-2010, 09:44 AM

So when you only earn a couple million a year, you need to supplement your income some how...

Tampa Bay Buccaneers tight end Jerramy Stevens will not play Sunday after he was arrested Saturday night for possession of cannabis with intent to sell, possession of cannabis, and possession of drug paraphernalia. The first two charges are felonies, while the last one is a misdemeanor.

I mean...really?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5722905

transplant99 · 10-24-2010, 09:49 AM

Also...Randy Moss when he plays the Packers as a Vike?

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In 14 games against them from 1998 to 2004, Moss had 70 receptions for 1,313 yards and 14 touchdowns. He has three 150-plus yard games against Green Bay.

theonlywhiteout · 10-24-2010, 09:50 AM

my man-cation ends today with the Titans and Eagles. there's a lot of philly fans in the cities donig the tourist thing, should be a great game!

rubecube · 10-24-2010, 11:59 AM

Kevin Kolb is doing his best to make Andy Reid's QB decision after the bye very easy.