The Dark Knight Rises: July 20, 2012

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

The wall street part was actually laughable. As if they'd let knowingly fraudulent trades stand.

Not only that, what was worse is that they then pretended that it would - in the words of Lucius Fox IIRC - take months to prove that they were fraudulent.

Bane broke into the ####ing stock exchange with machine guns and they need months to prove it? Gimme a break.

Would be a matter of breaking the code they used to execution team the trades, and then prove that they somehow got a hermits finger prints.

I would think it would take months to prove as you'd have to collect all the evidence and have your ducks in a row. A simple "c'mon it was Bane that executed the trades" would win in the court of public opinion but not a court of law

[vektor]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

1 - you have a guy that owns a company that develops military, and fusion, I don't think it's a stretch to say Wayne Enterprises works with medical technology too. I also don't think it's a stretch they cam up with a device to help you knees that "the bean counters didn't think was worth" the price tag.

2 - No idea, perhaps it did cause some damage, which would mean he'd have to train and recuperate before going again (which he did do).

3 - The whole point was to give Bruce hope he could escape knowing he never could. Everything Bane did went EXACTLY according to plan, except Bruce escaping. He thought it was impossible, so who cares if he had help or not, in fact him having help would destroy him even more as he would have added help.

* - the stock exchange was used to have Bruce gamble on futures and lose so Daggart could force him out & take over Wayne Enterprises.

1. It showed him playing with the knee fixer, it didn't replace his cartilage, it was a mechanical knee support that he didn't wear ever again. It was a brace, that he never wore.

2. Damage? People fall 6 feet hanging from their neck and it snaps their neck. Fall 30 or so feet and you'll be fallling so fast there's a chance it rips your body in half.

3. Bane specifically wanted him to see the bomb go off which was 11 or so days away when he got out, he told those guys in the jail that and they specifically told him how the little kid got out.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

2 - No idea, perhaps it did cause some damage, which would mean he'd have to train and recuperate before going again (which he did do).

It probably would since he already had a broken back. The bigger question should be, how many factor 1 falls can that rope take? (a minor detail that nobody would notice or care about... but if you wanted to get into the nitty gritty, there ye go)

[TurnedTheCorner]

http://www.theonion.com/articles/moo...-upbeat,29043/

[Hack&Lube]

Bruce Wayne basically had no cartilage left in his knee. I assumed that the device he put on was more akin to a powered exoskeleton support for his leg which gave him increased mobility and strength back to a leg he couldn't even stand on any longer.

How come his leg is totally fine for the rest of the movie? I would have assumed Bane would have removed this device along with the Batsuit when throwing Bruce into the prison. When did Bruce Wayne magically regrow cartilage in his leg?

The prisoners are also stupid. It appears they have no jailers or guards (as Bruce throws down ropes so they can all escape - even though some of them are probably real murderers and worse!) and an abundance of tools and ropes and beds. Just pull up a bed and rope with you and make a bridge for the jump.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

Would be a matter of breaking the code they used to execution team the trades, and then prove that they somehow got a hermits finger prints.

I would think it would take months to prove as you'd have to collect all the evidence and have your ducks in a row. A simple "c'mon it was Bane that executed the trades" would win in the court of public opinion but not a court of law

Once again, Bane broke in with machine guns. It shouldn't be hard to prove. Literally the one guy on the board, was it Daggart?, acted like they made the whole thing up. It was ridiculous. That #### would be all over the news and they would 100% flag suspicious transactions made just days after a terrorist attack on the stock exchange.

[vektor]

Yeah especially considering that under the law it specifically states that any transaction or contract signed under duress, against a persons will or by forgery is instantly nullified. It would not take months to prove. "You know those guys that killed people on wall street and bankrupted me, yeah, that wasn't me as can clearly be instantly stated by the hundred or so people that were on the trading room floor that saw Bane's face."

I wish they would have found some other way for Bane to steal Wayne's money or destroy the Wayne stock.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

You know when I bought all that RIM stock the day the stock exchange was broken into? Yeah, that ummmm was totally the bad guys and not me losing on a risk.

What's that? You have my fingers print approval and was no where to be found during the break in to confirm it wasn't me? Take my word for it, it was the bad guys. I've never put a ton of money into an investment only to have it blow up in my face and nearly cripple my finances before (fusion reactor) so clearly all trades made need to be suspended and reversed regardless of where they were made from, the trading floor, etrade, my bank etc, there were bad guys, bad guys equals fraud and duress for any bad trades that were made for anyone that day.

[vektor]

Yeah... except the people on the trading room floor saw Bane's face and there was video evidence left behind that was clearly shown when Alfred was reviewing the video footage. The whole, it could've been Wayne argument is stupid. Hey all you people that work on wall street, was it Bane or Bruce Wayne? Hmm...

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

You know when I bought all that RIM stock the day the stock exchange was broken into? Yeah, that ummmm was totally the bad guys and not me losing on a risk.

What's that? You have my fingers print approval and was no where to be found during the break in to confirm it wasn't me? Take my word for it, it was the bad guys. I've never put a ton of money into an investment only to have it blow up in my face and nearly cripple my finances before (fusion reactor) so clearly all trades made need to be suspended and reversed regardless of where they were made from, the trading floor, etrade, my bank etc, there were bad guys, bad guys equals fraud and duress for any bad trades that were made for anyone that day.

You can't possibly be that naiive.

You seriously think they'd let billions of dollars with of trades go through just days after a terrorist attack when literally hundreds of people saw what Bane did? Yeah I don't think so.

If Bane really wanted to do it properly he wouldn't have made a public show of it. The worst part is that this huge event that would have garnered worldwide attention was brushed aside and everyone ignored it.

That's the worst part. Bane's plan was stupid but the fact that everyone in the entire movie just pretended that Bane didn't so obviously and out in the open steal those codes (or whatever).

I don't know why you keep bringing up the stupid fingerprint thing. It is completely irrelevant. The stock exchange was broken into in broad daylight with hundreds of witnesses and hacked!!!!!!

And you truly think that they'd just ignore that and let #### continue? Even when the next day hundreds of billions of dollars mysteriously go missing?

[Coach]

Maybe Christopher Nolan and his writers didn't really bother to consult a CFA regarding the laws and due process surrounding fraudulent trading. Its a freaking super hero movie. Yeesh.

[WetCoast]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Maybe Christopher Nolan and his writers didn't really bother to consult a CFA regarding the laws and due process surrounding fraudulent trading. Its a freaking super hero movie. Yeesh.

We all hate Cecil right?

[Coach]

I don't hate Cecil at all. I just think everyone needs to calm down and suspend their disbelief a bit. It's Batman for cripes sake. As long as there's no bat-skates I'm good.

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I don't hate Cecil at all. I just think everyone needs to calm down and suspend their disbelief a bit. It's Batman for cripes sake. As long as there's no bat-skates I'm good.

Meh, if your goal is to make a realistic, gritty superhero movie, and every 15 minutes you are having to tell yourself "oh come on, it's a superhero movie" then you have failed somewhere along the way. Just because you have a guy that runs around in a cape and mask, you aren't given license to make every other aspect of the film indecipherably illogical. Comes across as lazy writing to me, and isn't worthy of all this praise that it has been given.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Ark2

Meh, if your goal is to make a realistic, gritty superhero movie, and every 15 minutes you are having to tell yourself "oh come on, it's a superhero movie" then you have failed somewhere along the way. Just because you have a guy that runs around in a cape and mask, you aren't given license to make every other aspect of the film indecipherably illogical. Comes across as lazy writing to me, and isn't worthy of all this praise that it has been given.

Every fifteen minutes? Please. I wonder sometimes how some of you enjoy movies. If this is how vigorously you dissect the plotline of every movie you see why even goto them at all? Was it perfect? No, but at the end of the day its Batman. And its about as realistic as it'll get.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Maybe Christopher Nolan and his writers didn't really bother to consult a CFA regarding the laws and due process surrounding fraudulent trading. Its a freaking super hero movie. Yeesh.

I didn't need to consult a cfa. I just have common sense.

I've already covered in great detail why all Nolan's movies are severely lacking previously in this thread.

On that note I'm not sure why it matters if I notice stupid parts of the movie.

Just because it was a superhero movie doesn't mean the plot or part of it should be nonexistent or nonsensical.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

I'm not saying they'd let it go through, I'm saying they'd have to do a forensic audit of EVERY SINGLE TRADE that day or at minimum that afternoon.

You have to be sure it wasn't just Bruce Wayne that was effected. You can't possibly be neive enough to think he was the only person that was harmed by what Bane did, and that a simple finger point would correct everything?

They didn't just click "buy" they used a program to make the trades, one complex enough that it would require time to determine EXACTLY what trades happened.

They would use a similar technique that Bruce did to buy the majority of shares of Wayne Enterprises.

A forensic audit to prove fraud takes time.

What if as part of hiding Bruce's trades Bane used your accounts and mine to make trades? Do the police ignore us for Bruce? Do they sort out his case before investigating ours, or do they do an investigation as a whole?

Did someone profit from this heist? Perhaps Daggart leveraged himself against the shenanigans that Bane fraudulently did in Bruce's name. Surely this would be investigated.

A forensic audit takes time. Yes, they know Bane did stuff, but what? We as the audience know what he did, but how the heck would Foley?

Yes, Wayne's trades would raise suspicion but that's all, not proof. This is a guy that put his entire R&D department into a fusion reactor and then mothballed it. He's an eccentric playboy turned hermit billionaire, who the heck knows what he's thinking! Would you be shocked to hear Mike Tyson did something stupid to blow his money (because let's face it Bruce Wayne is just as crazy in the eyes of Gothamites).

All I'm saying is months makes perfect sense. They eventually would figure it out, but they'd have to prove a high standard to overturn the transactions due to fraud.

If they froze all the money of all the transactions that day, he's still broke pending proof he didn't authorize the transactions

[trackercowe]

The brilliance in the plan is that Wayne brought in Talia to take over the board at Wayne Enterprises; he also was willing to show her where the Fusion device was and how it could be controlled. Without this maneuver Bruce would not have gone to Talia for help, and the plan would have been a no go.

Which is why Daggett was the pawn in all of this; they used him and his company, and in exchange he thought Wayne Enterprises was going to be his. Really Bane and Talia were planning this all along that Bruce would be willing to put his trust in Talia and in effect give her the key to the bomb.

I for one loved the plan and all of its intricacies. Go ahead and nitpick all you want, but I thought it played off almost perfectly.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by WetCoast

We all hate Cecil right?

No, despite him thinking a forensic audit would not be required to investigate all the fraudulent transactions from the movie

[trackercowe]

I think performing a forensic audit in Gotham would have been quite impossible 48 hours after they hit the stock exchange. In fact I would wager all financial institutions and the like were shut down for those 5 months. Everyone with money and/or power was likely hiding in their basements or attics to avoid persecution from the mob.