2023/24 Blue Jays Off Season Thread

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

There is no "extra" 24M. It's not a $70M salary. Never was and doesn't seem that anybody was offering that.

It would not otherwise have been spent on Ohtani.

It's simply a $46M salary for next 10 years. It's just that ohtani doesn't get to hold the money during that time.

Forget it, I'm done trying to explain it.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by flambers

Signings like the Dodgers made, will definitely hurt the game long term

Baseball has different levels, small market teams are in big trouble with this type of spending.

Others will follow

Cap is needed, however as you mentioned, unfortunately the side effect it will kill the movement.

But this kind of spending hasn’t killed the league before - why will it now ?

The dodgers cleared out a ton of cap space to be ready for this . They will still spend a ton - but not a lot different then they spent 2 years ago or the Mets spent last year

The biggest thing is the Sodgers have realized to stop overpaying past their prime players and are instead focusing on younger players . This could def let them build a dynasty (and their drafting/ farm is top notch as well)

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Parallex

IEven if 700M was on the table straight up it doesn't get them an additional 24M worth of players.

70-46=24

So if the Dodgers are willing to spend an extra 70M per year they can use it on more than one player.

That's the point I'm trying to make. It's not about them trying to get around being taxed for 70M. It's being taxed for 70M but it being more than one player.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Inferno

70-46=24

So if the Dodgers are willing to spend an extra 70M per year they can use it on more than one player.

That's the point I'm trying to make. It's not about them trying to get around being taxed for 70M. It's being taxed for 70M but it being more than one player.

They were never going to pay Ohtani 70 million next year - that’s the part you are missing

The options were Ohtani next year at ~50 million or in 10 years at 70 million

They may have saved a payroll rounding error in $$ (5 mil max) by doing it this way because Ohtani can take slightly less due to tax deferrals and come out ahead in 10 years

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Inferno

Forget it, I'm done trying to explain it.

Read posts 1352 or 1364.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Read posts 1352 or 1364.

Again, forget it.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Inferno

Forget it, I'm done trying to explain it.

That's kind of condescending to say when you're wrong.

It's a 46 million/year contract made to look like a 70 million/year contract. Not the other way around. If anything, the union should be unhappy about this, as most players wouldn't accept a deal like this.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

That's kind of condescending to say when you're wrong.

No, I'm just tired of trying to explain myself.

[KelVarnsen]

If you want us to forget it stop posting

[Strange Brew]

There are some posts that explain it very well. Or just google time value of money.

[GirlySports]

If baseball had a hard cap it would not be as funny when the Dodgers get bounced in a best of 5

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

But this kind of spending hasn’t killed the league before - why will it now ?

The dodgers cleared out a ton of cap space to be ready for this . They will still spend a ton - but not a lot different then they spent 2 years ago or the Mets spent last year

The biggest thing is the Sodgers have realized to stop overpaying past their prime players and are instead focusing on younger players . This could def let them build a dynasty (and their drafting/ farm is top notch as well)

Its deferred, when has this type of contract ever occurred before?

[bluejays]

If in pro sports you pay taxes on the cities your games are played, then he's paying taxes on a portion of it he's paid in his playing years for the respective cities he's playing in. For the "retirement" salary, he would be paying taxes on whatever city he's living in right? So he could potentially move to Texas in retirement and not pay taxes during that time, am I correct?

[KelVarnsen]

He should just man up and pay his taxes. #### greed.

[browna]

Originally Posted by bluejays

If in pro sports you pay taxes on the cities your games are played, then he's paying taxes on a portion of it he's paid in his playing years for the respective cities he's playing in. For the "retirement" salary, he would be paying taxes on whatever city he's living in right? So he could potentially move to Texas in retirement and not pay taxes during that time, am I correct?

Who knows. I am sure at that point he can set up a numbered company in a tax free state and the Dodgers pay it and he can live wherever he wants.
Like most successful businessmen, likely employs all sorts of advisors and accountants likely paid a few hundred $K a year (for part time work) to set up these corporate and tax structures for his salary, promotional income, investments. This is another level of complexity but he was prepared and knew what to do.

Even if everyone in his family wanted him to sign in Toronto, his entourage of financial advisors wouldve quit if they had to try to navigate the CRA tax rules in the way he's set this up, nevermind them also have to navigate the MYCRA site.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by bluejays

If in pro sports you pay taxes on the cities your games are played, then he's paying taxes on a portion of it he's paid in his playing years for the respective cities he's playing in. For the "retirement" salary, he would be paying taxes on whatever city he's living in right? So he could potentially move to Texas in retirement and not pay taxes during that time, am I correct?

Or he could move out of the US (say, to Japan for instance). Since it would then be US source income to a foreign person he would pay federal but not state tax. Same effect.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by bluejays

If in pro sports you pay taxes on the cities your games are played, then he's paying taxes on a portion of it he's paid in his playing years for the respective cities he's playing in. For the "retirement" salary, he would be paying taxes on whatever city he's living in right? So he could potentially move to Texas in retirement and not pay taxes during that time, am I correct?

Pretty much. He could move to Texas or any other state with no income tax and avoid California state income tax on this particular income stream. No change in his federal income taxes though.

They’re basically paying him a gigantic pension.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Or he could move out of the US (say, to Japan for instance). Since it would then be US source income to a foreign person he would pay federal but not state tax. Same effect.

I think he actually pays Japan taxes in that case, which I think end up about the same as US/Cali taxes. Tax treaties could allow him to not pay US federal taxes in that case. Not a great deal for US/Cali to not see any tax dollars on all that money leaving the economy.

I guess if most of his endorsements are from Japanese companies, he’s in the opposite situation now of paying US taxes on Japanese earnings. That assumes they are paid in a way that is taxable in the US.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

I think he actually pays Japan taxes in that case, which I think end up about the same as US/Cali taxes. Tax treaties could allow him to not pay US federal taxes in that case. Not a great deal for US/Cali to not see any tax dollars on all that money leaving the economy.

I guess if most of his endorsements are from Japanese companies, he’s in the opposite situation now of paying US taxes on Japanese earnings. That assumes they are paid in a way that is taxable in the US.

Good point. I think basically.

1) it's complicated
2) he'll have the best advice on minimizing the payments.

[Strange Brew]

I’m pretty sure he’d still have to pay some US taxes if he moved to Japan, but would get a credit against his Japanese taxes. Their tax rates are also much higher.

Another couple of wrinkles. It seems California could try and tax his deferred payments. While tax law forbids states from taxing retirement income of former residents, it sounds like there is some precedent for treating deferred payments for high worth celebrities as something other than retirement.

And the Trump tax cuts expire in a couple of years so the top marginal federal rate will increase by a couple of points.

There’s a scenario where it could not work out so great for him.

Ironic he signed with a team named the Dodgers.