2011 NFL thread

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by darklord700

The Fish has one winnable games vs KC. The Colts have two winnable games against an 1-5 Jacksonville. The Fish play in a much stronger division (Bills, Pats Jets) and the Cotls play in a weaker division (Texans, Jags, Titans). At this point, the Fish look like they'll win the Luck sweepstakes.

I don't know why everyone thinks the Chiefs are such a bad team. They're not great, but they're probably good for anywhere between 7 and 9 wins this season. Outside of the two stinkers they had to start the season, they've played very tough football. I wouldn't be shocked to see an upset against San Diego next Monday either.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Palmer may fall flation his face in Oakland, but today was no indication either way...dude has been working with that offense for 3 days...this isnt hockey where you lot a guy in and just tell him to do what he does, a QB needs to learn a playbook a well as his players and their tendancies and timing....not to mention that was palmers first real action with pads and contact in 10 months or so.

I thought he looked exactly like the Carson Palmer of the last few years. I forget where I read it (I think it was Simmons) but Palmer actually is right near the top when it comes to the number of pick sixes thrown over the last few years, and actually leads all QBs in the number of INTs that have been dropped by defenders.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I don't know why everyone thinks the Chiefs are such a bad team. They're not great, but they're probably good for anywhere between 7 and 9 wins this season. Outside of the two stinkers they had to start the season, they've played very tough football. I wouldn't be shocked to see an upset against San Diego next Monday either.

Probably because they lost HUGE the first 2 weeks to Buffalo and Detroit. At that time everyone still thought of the Bills and Lions as doormats of the league, so getting killed by them meant you were even worse.

Then to lose Jamaal Charles for the season on top of having lost Moeaki before the season started just added to the impression that an offence with only 10 points in its first 2 games loses 2 major cogs for the season, an new OC, and on top a QB who very few people have any faith in gets into a public squable with the HC no one likes.

It all adds up to being very easy to write the Chiefs off. I know I did.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

Probably because they lost HUGE the first 2 weeks to Buffalo and Detroit. At that time everyone still thought of the Bills and Lions as doormats of the league, so getting killed by them meant you were even worse.

Then to lose Jamaal Charles for the season on top of having lost Moeaki before the season started just added to the impression that an offence with only 10 points in its first 2 games loses 2 major cogs for the season, an new OC, and on top a QB who very few people have any faith in gets into a public squable with the HC no one likes.

It all adds up to being very easy to write the Chiefs off. I know I did.

Oh I get that, but I think they've been a lot better since those first two games. They're not a great team, but they don't belong in the same group as Miami, St. Louis, Cleveland, Arizona, Indy, etc.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Oh I get that, but I think they've been a lot better since those first two games. They're not a great team, but they don't belong in the same group as Miami, St. Louis, Cleveland, Arizona, Indy, etc.

The're not even in the conversation (at this point) in the "Suck for Luck division". As a Chiefs fan for over 20 years, I never would have guessed that they would be 3-3 with a chance at the division lead next Monday night after the embarrasing way they started the season. Especially after losing Charles, Eric Berry, and Tony Moeaki (all with ACL tears) for the season.

Go Chiefs!

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Oh I get that, but I think they've been a lot better since those first two games. They're not a great team, but they don't belong in the same group as Miami, St. Louis, Cleveland, Arizona, Indy, etc.

I agree, but there are a number of surprises that few of the pundits saw coming.

While the Chiefs are probably now closer to where there were last year, the first 2 weeks really threw people off.

While people knew Indy would struggle without Peyton but I'm not sure many say the absolute level of ineptitude they are playing at.

St. Louis was picked by many to continue the progress they had last season. They turned ugly.

Miami was missing a QB, but they had Marshall and brought in Bush. Yeah, perhaps showing ZERO faith in your Head Coach may not have been smart, and everything else was worse than most believed.

There have been a lot of good and bad surprises this year. That just means that this year is the same as all the other years.

And I don't believe the "Suck for Luck" really exists. There are too many players and coaches on these teams that are playing for their contracts next year. If any of them get much film of them mailing it in it will hurt their future. This is especially true in places like Miami where there might well be wholesale changes in the head office and the field.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

And I don't believe the "Suck for Luck" really exists. There are too many players and coaches on these teams that are playing for their contracts next year. If any of them get much film of them mailing it in it will hurt their future. This is especially true in places like Miami where there might well be wholesale changes in the head office and the field.

Suck for Luck is a media or fan wish. Like you said, no person in their right mind would lose onpurpose. Too much at stake for your carrer.

[Sylvanfan]

The way I see it is that there are about 5 somewhat defined tiers of NFL team right now.

High end elite

New England
New Orleans
Green Bay
Baltimore

Very good

San Diego
Houston
Pittsburgh
San Francisco
New York Giants
Detroit

Good
Buffalo
Tampa Bay
Atlanta
Philly should be here...record so far says no
New York Jets
Chicago
Dallas

Middling 7 or 8 win types of teams.
Kansas City
Oakland
Tennessee
Cincinatti
Cleveland
Washington

Bad
Seattle
Arizona
St.Louis
Minnesota
Carolina
Denver
Jacksonville
Indianapolis
Miami

So far seems like a lot of midding and bad teams have played each other, thus inflation records for teams like Cleveland, and Cincinatti. Whereas a team like Dallas had played a pretty tough schedule until yesterdays gimme.

Teams from the lower tier can usually go up about one tier and win a home game, or catch an opponent napping or be really inspired and upset a team two tiers above them (Seattle against New York Giants for example). But in the end I think this is how the teams are more or less shaking out.

[Bobblehead]

I think Green Bay is the only elite team. Patriots have had defence issues, the Ravens lost to a 3-3 team, and Saints have lost 2 games.

In the long run you may be proven correct (and about the Ravens and Saints, I think you will) but 6 games into the season those losses are still pretty big. And unless the Pats get their Defence fixed they are a vulnerable team.

Only Green Bay seems to have all phases of the game rolling and no complacency.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

The're not even in the conversation (at this point) in the "Suck for Luck division". As a Chiefs fan for over 20 years, I never would have guessed that they would be 3-3 with a chance at the division lead next Monday night after the embarrasing way they started the season. Especially after losing Charles, Eric Berry, and Tony Moeaki (all with ACL tears) for the season.

Go Chiefs!

Really if the Chiefs would just run Jackie Battle as the feature guy, change him up with McCluster and Jones occasionally that can set them up to take shots to Breaston and Bowe who are their two best offensive weapons. Do that and they should be able to move the ball decently enough on offence. When they try to get too fancy yesterday, was when they'd get in trouble. Dexter McCluster is going to get killed by the Raiders athletes in space, he's too small and slow. Put him in the area's where he can use his agility and he's far better off. Whereas Battle can just move the chains 3-4 yards at a time and always get that extra yard.

Keep playing defence they way they have in 12 of the last 14 quarters and it won't be easy to beat them.

Before the season started, I would have been okay with a 3-3 record, although hoping for 4-2. Certainly the home loss to Buffalo was a surprise, but they did win on the road in Indy, which I wouldn't have expected pre season expecting Manning to be playing. Hopefully Pippy Rivers continues to suffer from his current conditions of Tony Romo brain, and CFL talentitis and give the Chiefs a chance to knock off the Bolts on Monday night.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

I think Green Bay is the only elite team. Patriots have had defence issues, the Ravens lost to a 3-3 team, and Saints have lost 2 games.

In the long run you may be proven correct (and about the Ravens and Saints, I think you will) but 6 games into the season those losses are still pretty big. And unless the Pats get their Defence fixed they are a vulnerable team.

Only Green Bay seems to have all phases of the game rolling and no complacency.

Green Bay is far and away the most complete team, but even went on the road and let Adrian Peterson torch them knowing the Vikings were playing a rookie QB. Carolina hung around for a long time against them in Lambeau too. So every single team has a flaw of some kind. Teams for whatever reasons have stinkers like the Ravens in Tennessee after their big win against the Steelers, or Tom Brady throwing more picks in a game than he'd thrown the previous year in Buffalo.

Even the 49'ers could be in the elite convesation given their only loss was in OT. Maybe I'm not giving them enough credit given that they have gone into Philly and Detroit and come away with wins.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Green Bay is far and away the most complete team, but even went on the road and let Adrian Peterson torch them knowing the Vikings were playing a rookie QB. Carolina hung around for a long time against them in Lambeau too. So every single team has a flaw of some kind. Teams for whatever reasons have stinkers like the Ravens in Tennessee after their big win against the Steelers, or Tom Brady throwing more picks in a game than he'd thrown the previous year in Buffalo.

Even the 49'ers could be in the elite convesation given their only loss was in OT. Maybe I'm not giving them enough credit given that they have gone into Philly and Detroit and come away with wins.

I wouldn't put the 49ers in there yet, either. Philly should have won that game but had it taken away, and Philly hasn't looked any good before or after that. The Lions were a solid win, but perhaps it was just a case that the clock struck midnight for the Lions. The Lions just aren't deep enough to hang in there through injuries. The 49ers should be able to sleepwalk to the playoffs with a 3 game lead (and 5 games left against team who, right now, have a grand total of 3 wins), but teams aren't going to be taken by surprise by them anymore. If the 49ers can still win against good teams who know they are coming then they will be legit.

[Sylvanfan]

Yeah, one more win against Seattle, and I don't see how they lose the NFC West. I thought they'd break through last year and they were awful. But I think it was 100% coaching....Singleterry, Great player, great inspriation....Epically Bad coach. No clue how to relate to a quarterback.

[Slava]

^I'm not sure that I would include San Diego in that "very good" classification at this point either. The lost to the Jets and really haven't beaten anyone of good caliber. Broncos, Chiefs, Minny and Miami...hardly teams that you could say they are helping to define them as a power in any sense.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Slava

^I'm not sure that I would include San Diego in that "very good" classification at this point either. The lost to the Jets and really haven't beaten anyone of good caliber. Broncos, Chiefs, Minny and Miami...hardly teams that you could say they are helping to define them as a power in any sense.

Not to mention none of those wins were convincing.

[The Big Chill]

Houston is getting the injury bug like the Packers did last year. Starting safety Danieal Manning has a broken leg and is out anywhere from 4-10 weeks. Damn.

[dirk diggler]

Originally Posted by Slava

^I'm not sure that I would include San Diego in that "very good" classification at this point either. The lost to the Jets and really haven't beaten anyone of good caliber. Broncos, Chiefs, Minny and Miami...hardly teams that you could say they are helping to define them as a power in any sense.

i am a chargers fan and i have to concur, any time they play a solid team, they tend to self destruct. they belong in the good but nothing special category. when you let Sanchez/Burress look like Montana/Rice, you have problems

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Slava

^I'm not sure that I would include San Diego in that "very good" classification at this point either. The lost to the Jets and really haven't beaten anyone of good caliber. Broncos, Chiefs, Minny and Miami...hardly teams that you could say they are helping to define them as a power in any sense.

No, although they were pretty competitive against New England, and as much as Charger fans are angry today, they had a chance to drive and tie or win the game against the Jets on the road yesterday. I'm probably giving the Chargers some extra value for their talent which I still think stacks up with anyone....just so happens that they seem to struggle getting it all together. If last year's Phillip Rivers comes out of the woodwork...they're an elite team. If this years Pip is here to stay, than they win a mediocre division.

I will say this though...the AFC West is no longer the laughing stock of football. The AFC South is worse, and of course the NFC West is also awful.

[browna]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Yeah, one more win against Seattle, and I don't see how they lose the NFC West. I thought they'd break through last year and they were awful. But I think it was 100% coaching....Singleterry, Great player, great inspriation....Epically Bad coach. No clue how to relate to a quarterback.

Seattle doesn't play SF until the second last game of the season. This one is over for the most part.

Seattle has to win games like yesterday (and it was right there game flow wise, and really, a brutally botched call on the PR stopped them from winning) to keep up, and it didn't.

To get anywhere close to the division, need SF to start to lose, and start to implode, while at the same time SEA get on a roll with Jackson and the offense making plays and the defense continuing their already solid play.

Thing is, SEA has a first place schedule, and after this weekends must win game vs CIN, still has the rest of the NFC East besides the Giants, Chicago and Baltimore, in addition to the Rams twice and SF and ARI once.

Its not out of the realm to get 5 or 6 wins if they put decent games together as they did against the Giants a couple weeks ago, but that gets them to 7 or 8...SF has to only get 3 wins in the next 10 to get to that 8 spot.

ARI has looked like the same old team, except a new, slightly better QB then last year, and St. Louis will be looking for a new coach after this year.

It really is SF's division to lose, and lose dramatically if they would, after Seattle's loss yesterday.

[DropIt]

What the hell is this? 2 top RB's cant seem to hold on to the ball to save their lives