[Trade] Andersson (50% retained) to Vegas for 27 1st, cond 28 2nd, Whitecloud, Wiebe

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Yeah, but the break even people aren't in here raging like a bunch of whiny lunatics

Thats my point

I take exception to being lumped-in with the whiners. Not everyone who voted for the modest loss is a whiner. I certainly am not.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Yeah, but the break even people aren't in here raging like a bunch of whiny lunatics

Thats my point

Never understood this take, everyone is entitled to an opinion but because someone criticizes the deal or doesn't share the same one as you might have, you use words like "whiney" or "lunatics".

If we cant discuss things, what's the point of being on here.

[3thirty]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Over 600 voters in the poll now and over 70% of them believe it was break even or better.

Appears that once again the whiny vocal minority makes it seem worse than it really is.

When they post the same crap 10x it sure clutters up the thread with negative "opinions"

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by Royle9

Dont believe its going to happen, but you could likely get at the very least a 2nd +
Maybe a 1st if a team is desperate enough, he's a defensive guy who can kill PK's and is quite physical.

If Calgary was contending, id be super happy with the player being here for the push.

He's the same age as Andersson. Low cap hit, one year left on his contract. So he will likely be traded by next season's trade deadline, if not this year.

[marsplasticeraser]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

This is the part that people should be paying attention to. We traded Hanifin in 2023-24 for a player that will not be drafted until 2026 and most likely not see the Flames lineup full time until 2030. We just traded away Andersson for draft picks we will not see until 2027 and 2028 and those players not see the Calgary roster until probably 2032 or later, if they make it at all. Vegas is playing with and gaining benefit from our future, and we received no benefit from allowing them to do so. Trade for immediate picks. Period. Sports is a game about immediate results. This trying to play 4D chess stuff is stupid. If a team doesn't have the picks you want (next draft), move the hell on to a team that does. I mean, Conroy got played so badly on Hanifin that the pick they should have received was used in a later deal to grab Hertl, which made the pick we received less valuable. Just brutal management and vision.

What if nobody is offering 2026 picks? You can’t sell for somebody nobody is offering.

Or perhaps the offers with 2026 picks were a 2nd and a 4th. It seems very bad asset management to accept significantly less for getting a pick one year earlier.

Ultimately what we want is irrelevant, it’s what is available.

To suggest Craig chose the worst deal is illogical.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by 442scotty

I’m tired of the Conroy bashing on here. I think he’s doing a great job cleaning up after the mess Treliving left. Anyway that’s my rant. Probably time to stick to watching for posts from Sureloss. This place is getting crazy

On the flip side I’m tired of some posters thinking Conroy can do no wrong. I’ve liked what he has done for the most part. That said he learned nothing from the hanifin trade. It was a mistake not trading Anderson last deadline when prices were high. Some of us called it that Anderson could easily pull a hanifin and he did. The price he got back was good for a rental if you really believe he was traded as a rental. I have no doubt in my mind that he will sign extension in next month. He’s done good work but there are things he needs to work on going forward.

[Vinny01]

I think this trade is a modest loss because I feel like for an organization that has been rebuilding for 3 seasons they decided to wait until less than 2 months before the deadline to move a player and while the return is acceptable they received picks that are far down the path when this team expects to be contending. They took their time to pull the trigger on this deal and it will take time to use the primary assets received and likely delays the time it takes for this rebuild to be complete.

Ultimately I am very curious about what the roadmap to contention looks like for the management group and how long they intend to take for the rebuild. I know they won’t tell us but I am intrigued to see what it looks like in their war room

[Doctorfever]

I think Calgary did ok here. I voted modest win.

Regardless of what has or hasn’t happened in the past, Ras was traded as a rental. It doesn’t matter if he signs in Vegas, he was a rental when we traded him.

I didn’t know a lot about Whitecloud, but I am happy to get a serviceable defenceman with a good cap hit coming back. Whitecloud sounds like a good locker room guy, so should be a welcome addition here. I believe he will fetch a second at a trade deadline.

Some of the negative parts of this trade that people brought up that I agree with are;
The first being top 10 protected.
Some of the assets we received being too far in the future (but rebuild is a slog as some have mentioned).
Trading to Vegas when we own their pick.

One thing that levels off trading Ras to Vegas is the fact that we took the best deal available, regardless of the trade destination. Had we taken less from any other team I would have been upset. Of course we don’t know and will never know what other teams offered, but it is safe to say that Conroy took the best deal available.

I think the trade turns into a bigger win for Calgary if we trade Whitecloud for another pick.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by the-rasta-masta

Of course that’s obvious. But they could have also waited 13 more games to do it.

Or traded him last off season I suppose.

We'll see how the team responds but I'm not expecting some massive letdown. Rasmus being traded was a foregone conclusion from the beginning of the season.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I take exception to being lumped-in with the whiners. Not everyone who voted for the modest loss is a whiner. I certainly am not.

You certainly are not, but the main culprits who are always complaining no matter what are all in there.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Over 600 voters in the poll now and over 70% of them believe it was break even or better.

Appears that once again the whiny vocal minority makes it seem worse than it really is.

Originally Posted by Sol

You could also say that over 70% think it is break even or worse....

Right, which is why you look at the distribution pattern of the data. It indicates to me that there is a consensus overall that it was a fair deal, with a normal distribution pattern on either side, and a slight tail towards the extreme negative opinion. Those would probably be the vocal minority RoofDaddy is probably referring to. They only get to vote once, but they post a lot more than those who are okay with the deal or mildly pleased.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

This is the part that people should be paying attention to. We traded Hanifin in 2023-24 for a player that will not be drafted until 2026 and most likely not see the Flames lineup full time until 2030. We just traded away Andersson for draft picks we will not see until 2027 and 2028 and those players not see the Calgary roster until probably 2032 or later, if they make it at all. Vegas is playing with and gaining benefit from our future, and we received no benefit from allowing them to do so. Trade for immediate picks. Period. Sports is a game about immediate results. This trying to play 4D chess stuff is stupid. If a team doesn't have the picks you want (next draft), move the hell on to a team that does. I mean, Conroy got played so badly on Hanifin that the pick they should have received was used in a later deal to grab Hertl, which made the pick we received less valuable. Just brutal management and vision.

I do kind of agree with you, but I think this long play that I think can work and that you can try when you are in a rebuild.

This season alone if you step back and look at things it makes sense. In a seasons or two who knows what Vegas looks like. With SJ and Anaheim getting their ducks in a row Vegas is probably isn't a shoe in for the division the following seasons. This year the pick will be 25-32 because I can't see Edmonton being good enough to win the division. So giving them Andersson probably doesn't move the needle much.

The condition if they win it all, even if it is betting against the field, is worth it if it only moves the pick up a couple spots.

[Bonded]

Hope Coleman is open to moving this year so we don’t have to have the same argument next year. Seems like 24 offseason was the better time to trade Andersson but oh well. Conroy ended up getting what was expected.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

This is the part that people should be paying attention to. We traded Hanifin in 2023-24 for a player that will not be drafted until 2026 and most likely not see the Flames lineup full time until 2030. We just traded away Andersson for draft picks we will not see until 2027 and 2028 and those players not see the Calgary roster until probably 2032 or later, if they make it at all. Vegas is playing with and gaining benefit from our future, and we received no benefit from allowing them to do so. Trade for immediate picks. Period. Sports is a game about immediate results. This trying to play 4D chess stuff is stupid. If a team doesn't have the picks you want (next draft), move the hell on to a team that does. I mean, Conroy got played so badly on Hanifin that the pick they should have received was used in a later deal to grab Hertl, which made the pick we received less valuable. Just brutal management and vision.

Easy to say and hard to execute on. I don’t mind the deferred picks as it gives them flexibility to trade for players while keeping the prospect pipeline going with their own picks.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Royle9

Never understood this take, everyone is entitled to an opinion but because someone criticizes the deal or doesn't share the same one as you might have, you use words like "whiney" or "lunatics".

If we cant discuss things, what's the point of being on here.

If you don't go into every thread looking for and making up reasons to complain, then it wasn't you I was referring to.

I still don't get how anybody could be upset with this return for a rental though. Its pretty solid, unless expectations were out of whack beforehand that is.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

If you don't go into every thread looking for and making up reasons to complain, then it wasn't you I was referring to.

I still don't get how anybody could be upset with this return for a rental though. Its pretty solid, unless expectations were out of whack beforehand that is.

Fair.

If it were a true rental, I would tend to agree.
I just don't buy its that at all sadly, its meant to look like that on the surface based on both the comments from Rasmus and Craig, but I think we know for the most part he'll be extending.

Hidden agenda/borderline tampering honestly.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Royle9

Fair.

If it were a true rental, I would tend to agree.
I just don't buy its that at all sadly, its meant to look like that on the surface based on both the comments from Rasmus and Craig, but I think we know for the most part he'll be extending.

Hidden agenda/borderline tampering honestly.

I wonder at what point it is worth taking a lesser return to spite Vegas?
Never? it's not Conroy's job to be emotional.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

He's the same age as Andersson. Low cap hit, one year left on his contract. So he will likely be traded by next season's trade deadline, if not this year.

He has two years left after this year. So 3 playoffs.

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by Royle9

Fair.

If it were a true rental, I would tend to agree.
I just don't buy its that at all sadly, its meant to look like that on the surface based on both the comments from Rasmus and Craig, but I think we know for the most part he'll be extending.

Hidden agenda/borderline tampering honestly.

It is so annoying that it is always Vegas. It is the same thing that happened when Marner had an agreed contract with Vegas so fast on July 1. As if he had not been talking to them for months.

And then you have the injury crap that they keep pulling to get players off the books.

I hate that team so much. Even though I like most of their players, they are an annoying organization.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

So it's even worse then. A 29 year old bottom-pair D... and he's a right shot, so he's literally going to be used as a replacement for Andersson in the typical Flames' way of using unskilled guys higher up in the lineup than they should be.

Zero room created for a young guy like Parekh to move up.

I called it. A midling prospect, and a couple of midling draft picks (20-30th in the first and second round, amd not even for this year!) and a roster replacement for the outgoing asset that will "help us compete right now" for whatever it is Maloney thinks we're competing for.

So when the rumoured ask for Andersson was the equivalent of two first round picks you were outraged?

Not sure how much company you'd have on that angry corner.

Because that's pretty much what they earned in this trade ... a 1st, an outside chance at another first that will likely be a 2nd, a player that has value in the 2nd round pick range and a prospect they've seen.

1st + 2nd (or better) + 2nd (estimate) + prospect seems like a two first trade to me.