Building The 2018/19 Flames Roster

[Heavy Jack]

With Brouwer out of the picture now and Lindholm having a good chance starting with Johnny/Mony there is a big part of me that wants to see Bennett given an opportunity to center Tkachuk and Neal... how does a team cover a line like that with out getting completely wore down through out the game.

Something like

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
This line is a possession monster with two 55%+ faceoff men on their strong side this line has the ability to gain possession quickly and finish.

Tkachuk - Bennett - Neal
Supreme agitation line that has a bit of everything, playmaker in Tkachuk, sniper in Neal and a 50%+ faceoff guy in Bennett who’s never had the luxury of centering a pair of wingers like Tkachuk/Neal. A line like this would help us win the mental/intimidation battle almost every night.

Jankowski - Backlund - Frolik/Czarnik
Give Jankowski the Tkachuk spot this year and when your looking for a little more offensive pop sub Czarnik in otherwise continue to run the line that Backlund centers as a shutdown line that shoulders plenty of dzone starts but can chip in a fair share of offense.

Mangiapane - Ryan - Frolik/Czarnik
Ryan is an elite faceoff man who could see his line feasting on weaker 4th line matchups; also gives us the ability to double shift wingers like Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Lindholm and or Neal if one of the 4th line wings aren’t feeling it or we want to pour on the offense and wear the other team down; Hathaway and or Lazar sub in when we need to play a heavier game.

Lazar, Hathaway

Edit: the cool thing too about Janko being on the Backs/Frolik line is that it remains the MMM line but for the times you sub Czarnik in for Frolik it also becomes the MMA line haha!

[Lanny_McDonald]

Why would you move Bennett to center when he has proven he can't play the position? Why would you move him ahead of Jankowski in that position, who acquitted himself quite well in his rookie season, and then move Jankowski to the wing? Bennett has yet to prove himself capable of using his linemates, so I think it would be a shame to put him between Tkachuk and Neal, especially when you have a big center with soft hands who is very good at puck distribution waiting in the wings. Bennett should be on the third line with Backlund and Frolik, where he experienced the only success he's had in his three years in the league. Until he proves he can be successful in that role, he doesn't deserve any other. His draft position and supposed potential he had is long gone. Time to let him earn his spots.

[Heavy Jack]

You can’t really give a guy a chance to prove himself if you don’t give the same type of opportunity with skilled players as other have had. If you look at Jankos video that AC made for a lot of it Bennett was the straw stirring the drink on the plays and both Jankowski and Bennett had lower point totals due to statistically below average finishing abilities for Bennett.

You can’t tell me here and now that having Bennett take a step forward at the position we drafted him at playing with wingers like Tkachuk and Neal wouldn’t be a big win for this club.

He did take 200+ draws last year and was 54% which is such a small sample size in comparison to the 810/48% from Jankowski but in the only year Bennett’s had 800+ faceoffs he was a 46%.

Jankowski would still get reps at 4th line Center with Ryan playing throughout the middle six and taking faceoffs for Backlund at times as well but if you look at this syalystically a line of Tkachuk - Bennett - Neal has potential to be a Perry - Getzlaf - Ryan/Penner/Maroon/Rakell of the next few years that can dominate games and agitate the opposition. It also gives this team stength throughout the line up and allows us to role a truly elite top 9 while allowing Jankowski to learn directly from one of the great two-way centres of today in Backlund.

I really don’t see the harm in trying a line of Tkachuk - Bennett - Neal; at this point it’s put up or shut up with Bennett and it’s a big contract year for him that will determine whether a change of scenery is in order so why not try to swing for the fences with our highest organizational pick in team history?

[DallasFlamesFan]

It's been fun playing with potential line combinations upfront, but one question I keep having is on the backend. Can Stone play Left D? Is Peter's opposed to playing D on their off hand side? (Brodie being the exception).

The top 4 are set, and I don't think that Stone is going anywhere any time soon. So if we need to room for Andersson out of camp, he will play RD, and Stone is better than Kulak. Do you move Stone to the LD spot and sit Kulak in the pressbox? Maybe a trade once you know that Andersson will stick?

If Kylington or Valimaki make the team over Andersson then there is good balance.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by DallasFlamesFan

It's been fun playing with potential line combinations upfront, but one question I keep having is on the backend. Can Stone play Left D? Is Peter's opposed to playing D on their off hand side? (Brodie being the exception).

The top 4 are set, and I don't think that Stone is going anywhere any time soon. So if we need to room for Andersson out of camp, he will play RD, and Stone is better than Kulak. Do you move Stone to the LD spot and sit Kulak in the pressbox? Maybe a trade once you know that Andersson will stick?

If Kylington or Valimaki make the team over Andersson then there is good balance.

That's what makes this camp so damn fascinating.

Stone is the only bottom roster contract of any size if you treat Ryan as the plug and play guy they assume.

So you have three young defenseman coming in to challenge the bottom half of the roster, and three young forwards doing the same up front.

If Andersson is lights out do they actively try and move Stone? Have Andersson become the 7th defenseman? Send him down and wait for an injury?

If Kylington or Valimaki out play Kulak does Kulak get sent down or moved? Or is it the easy option of waver free player gets optioned?

If two of Foo, Mangiapane, Dube or Klimchuk look better than Hathaway do they keep Hathaway because he plays with an edge at times? Do they option Hathaway to the farm or do they send down Lazar because of his limited offence? Or once again do the waiver guys go down as asset management?

And I ask this not with the usual spite of being pissed that young kids don't get a chance. I get that you have to make the call. Losing a serviceable NHLer for a kid that looks good in exhibition games isn't smart if the wheels come off in mid to late October.

But it's interesting nonetheless.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by DallasFlamesFan

It's been fun playing with potential line combinations upfront, but one question I keep having is on the backend. Can Stone play Left D? Is Peter's opposed to playing D on their off hand side? (Brodie being the exception).

The top 4 are set, and I don't think that Stone is going anywhere any time soon. So if we need to room for Andersson out of camp, he will play RD, and Stone is better than Kulak. Do you move Stone to the LD spot and sit Kulak in the pressbox? Maybe a trade once you know that Andersson will stick?

Is he actually, though? About the only thing I see him offering over Kulak is "experience" on the penalty kill, but I don't think he's a guy you necessarily want on a PK2 which is all about entry denial which he's terrible at. At 5v5 there's no doubt Kulak is the superior player and a Kulak-Andersson paiing would IMO outperform a Stone-Andersson or Kulak-Stone pairing.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by Bingo

That's what makes this camp so damn fascinating.

Stone is the only bottom roster contract of any size if you treat Ryan as the plug and play guy they assume.

So you have three young defenseman coming in to challenge the bottom half of the roster, and three young forwards doing the same up front.

If Andersson is lights out do they actively try and move Stone? Have Andersson become the 7th defenseman? Send him down and wait for an injury?

If Kylington or Valimaki out play Kulak does Kulak get sent down or moved? Or is it the easy option of waver free player gets optioned?

If two of Foo, Mangiapane, Dube or Klimchuk look better than Hathaway do they keep Hathaway because he plays with an edge at times? Do they option Hathaway to the farm or do they send down Lazar because of his limited offence? Or once again do the waiver guys go down as asset management?

And I ask this not with the usual spite of being pissed that young kids don't get a chance. I get that you have to make the call. Losing a serviceable NHLer for a kid that looks good in exhibition games isn't smart if the wheels come off in mid to late October.

But it's interesting nonetheless.

I think the keep stone. Worst case he can play 7th D and rotate in. Plus you know there will be an injury at some point

[Samonadreau]

I still cant believe we didnt see

Brodie-Stone
And
Kulak- Hamonic

At any point last season. Not that it matters now. Just got me thinking about it.

[djsFlames]

Bennett isn't a top 6 player without notable improvement. I don't know why people keep plugging him in there. Especially dumbfounding to have him at center over Backlund and Jankowski after what we saw from center Bennett.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Bennett isn't a top 6 player without notable improvement. I don't know why people keep plugging him in there. Especially dumbfounding to have him at center over Backlund and Jankowski after what we saw from center Bennett.

You don't know why people might not want to admit to themselves that we used a 4th overall pick to draft a 3rd line winger?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Bennett isn't a top 6 player without notable improvement. I don't know why people keep plugging him in there. Especially dumbfounding to have him at center over Backlund and Jankowski after what we saw from center Bennett.

How many people are doing that though? I would put the number in and around 10%.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

You don't know why people might not want to admit to themselves that we used a 4th overall pick to draft a 3rd line winger?

I actually think the group that pencils him in in the top six is a good balance for those that are writing him off.

[GranteedEV]

I don't think anyone is pencilling Bennett into the top six, but his perceived weak areas would be offset with two skilled wingers flanking him, and his legitimate strengths would benefit his wingers too. He is a good center. Not a perfect one , but one who is built to be centering good, skilled wingers who DOES do many things well at the position. The upside is real, and it is in the team's best interest to realize it.

I certainly can't look at the list of guys he's played with since the Bennett-Backlund-Frolik line:

Gaudreau
Granlund
Hudler
Colborne
Bouma
Brouwer
Versteeg
Chiasson
Lazar
Jagr
Jankowski
Hathaway

and name more than two guys I expect to play 75+ NHL games next season in a top nine role. Thise two are Gaudreau and Jankowski, and Jankowski cannibalizes Bennett's strengths down the middle.

I love Backlund, and I would like to see him flanked by two less established players, maybe Jankowski and Czarnik, to see if we can maximize the experience vs potential balance.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I actually think the group that pencils him in in the top six is a good balance for those that are writing him off.

I think both sides need to come to grips with reality. He's an NHL player, but a replaceable one.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

I think both sides need to come to grips with reality. He's an NHL player, but a replaceable one.

I think that's too low as well to be honest.

Right now Curtis Lazar is on the bubble between replacement level and not based on his production. His contract isn't an albatross and he seems to be learning how to use his speed to be an effective two way player so I'd have him on the NHL side of the bubble for now.

Bennett is clearly a step above that given his production average. You called him a third line winger yourself ... not replacement level.

[Vinny01]

A lot of players have sucked under a certain coach and thrived with others.

Bouwmeester was extremely underwhelming as a Flame until Sutter was fired and Hartley brought in. JayBo would have his best season as a Flames in the lockout shortened season where he was traded and then would go on the make team Canada at the 2014 olympics plying for the Blues.

Sam Bennett had 18goals and 36pts playing as a 19 year old rookie under Hartley. Brodie was a top pairing Dman and dynamic offensively under Hartley. Both of these players took huge steps back under Gulutzan and I won’t write either of them off unless they fail again under Peters.

Look what happened when Sutter leaves LA and Dustin Brown completely changed bac to the player he was 5 years ago

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think that's too low as well to be honest.

Right now Curtis Lazar is on the bubble between replacement level and not based on his production. His contract isn't an albatross and he seems to be learning how to use his speed to be an effective two way player so I'd have him on the NHL side of the bubble for now.

Bennett is clearly a step above that given his production average. You called him a third line winger yourself ... not replacement level.

I meant replaceable as in I wouldn't be upset at all if he were moved, as 3rd line wingers are easily obtained through free agency and trade.

He's far from what you would hope for as a 4th overall pick, but he's certainly panned out better than other high draft picks like Yakupov and Dal Colle. If there's a deal to be had involving a young goaltender who's NHL ready and has starting potential I wouldn't think twice about pulling the trigger.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Bennett isn't a top 6 player without notable improvement. I don't know why people keep plugging him in there. Especially dumbfounding to have him at center over Backlund and Jankowski after what we saw from center Bennett.

Bennett has the skill, skating and size to be a top 6 player at some point. Should we be disappointed he hasn’t achieved that earlier? That’s fair. But he still has the potential to be a good scoring line player. I think people pencilling him in on one of the top two lines are trying to accomplish a few things

1. Spread out the offense by creating three balanced scoring lines. It sure sounds like Peters will stack the first two lines which is obviously the other approach.
2. Put Bennett in a situation where he can pick up some points and gain confidence. I think most of the “improvement” you need to see with Bennett is a mental and confidence thing. Playing Bennett with the inconsistent rookie Jankowski and the offensive black hole in Hathaway was not the greatest situation for him to put up points and gain confidence and momentum. If he’s playing top 3 lines this year it’ll be a better offensive situation for him than playing with Hathaway last year
3. With Bennett, Janko and Czarnik all being young offensive players who have yet to truly break out there’s a lot of merit IMO to splitting them up so they can play with established offensive players and gain confidence and points that way. Of course you could argue putting them together on the 3rd line takes the pressure off. I can see arguments going both ways there.

Personally I would do

Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm
Tkachuk-Jankowski-Neal
Bennett-Backlund-Czarnik/Frolik

That would split up Bennett/Janko and put both of them in easy situations to succeed. That would spread out our offense the best.

But I understand Peters thinking with having Tkachuk-Backlund-Neal together. I think that could work great as well.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

I think both sides need to come to grips with reality. He's an NHL player, but a replaceable one.

Well reality is he’s an extremely young player who has lots of room for improvent, a high ceiling and is far from a finished product. Most players his age continue to improve dramatically over the next few years. Sure you can point out this or that bust but I could just as easily point out hundreds of players who improved significantly at ages 22+

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Bennett isn't a top 6 player without notable improvement. I don't know why people keep plugging him in there. Especially dumbfounding to have him at center over Backlund and Jankowski after what we saw from center Bennett.

Because this isn't a "top 6" league anymore. It's a "top 9" or a "roll 4" league at this stage (unless you're blessed with two elite centres - but even then, you still end up with Phil friggin' Kessel on the "3rd" line).

There simply shouldn't be a big drop-off between lines 2 and 3 - and if there is, it's a sign of a poor depth.

While Bennett may not be a "top 6" guy today, he is a "middle 6" guy.