Don't want to get in a big philosophical discussion about this, but in Canada we are a liberal democracy, and with our liberal values that includes freedom to live your life as you see fit, as long as it doesn't infringe on freedoms of others. When speech or propaganda targets a certain group and makes that group feel oppressed, the speech is infringing on the freedoms of the group.
I'd be shocked if that was the legal standard in Canada.
I'd be shocked if that was the legal standard in Canada.
Yeah, it's not. Laws are complicated, but unless it's directly promoting genocide, there's a lot of leeway. When you look at David Ahenakew's horrifically offensive comments and realize that those were not considered hate speech, you realize just how hard it is to make hate speech charges stick in canada.
Last edited by octothorp; 07-31-2014 at 12:07 PM.
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But I think a major reason why Egypt blockades Gaza is because of that peace treaty. In essence, allowing that border to open would be a declaration of war in Israel and nullification of the Peace treaty. Make no mistake about it though, Gazans and Hamas aren't big fans of that situation.
No.
Egypt imposes a blockade, because
1) Hamas is dangerous. They've attacked multiple targets in the Sinai Pininsula in the past.
2) Hamas is affiliated with the Muslim Brotherhood. An organization trying to over run Egypt.
3) Egypt (and the other states) want to keep Palestinian refugees as Palestinian refugees. After 1949, Egypt and the other Arab states had the rules of what makes a refugee changed for this particular situation. Anyone who had been in what is now Israel for 2 or more years or their descendents were considered Palestinian refugees. The Arab states then stripped these people of citizenship and property. Yasser Arafat's dad had Egyptian citizenship (so did Yasser) and property. After 1949, the Egyptian government confiscated his land and removed his citizenship, as he had been living in what is no Gaza.
If Egypt opens the border, the Palestinians will move to Egypt. They will cease to be Israel's problem. The military option failed in 1949, so the Arab states would ensure a demographic weapon. All of Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Iraq, and Jordan have had all sorts of migration across their borders. The only Arabs denied citizenship are the Palestinian ones.
"United Nations officials said that they had informed Israel 17 times of the precise location of the school and that there were civilians sheltering there, including once at 8:50 p.m., just hours before the attack on Wednesday."
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All of these civilian deaths in Gaza. A ceasefire will happen in a week, or two, or five, and does anyone truly believe that Israel will be a safer place because of this collective punishment? It may take Hamas et al a few months, or maybe a year, to rearm with rockets. And then begin it all again. What a pointless waste of life.
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1) Hamas is dangerous. They've attacked multiple targets in the Sinai Pininsula in the past.
2) Hamas is affiliated with the Muslim Brotherhood. An organization trying to over run Egypt.
3) Egypt (and the other states) want to keep Palestinian refugees as Palestinian refugees. After 1949, Egypt and the other Arab states had the rules of what makes a refugee changed for this particular situation. Anyone who had been in what is now Israel for 2 or more years or their descendents were considered Palestinian refugees. The Arab states then stripped these people of citizenship and property. Yasser Arafat's dad had Egyptian citizenship (so did Yasser) and property. After 1949, the Egyptian government confiscated his land and removed his citizenship, as he had been living in what is no Gaza.
If Egypt opens the border, the Palestinians will move to Egypt. They will cease to be Israel's problem. The military option failed in 1949, so the Arab states would ensure a demographic weapon. All of Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Iraq, and Jordan have had all sorts of migration across their borders. The only Arabs denied citizenship are the Palestinian ones.
1) Those are all allegations right now and as of yet are still unproven.
2) Huh? Until very recently the Muslim Brotherhood were ruling Egypt, but the blockade continued in order to not upset Israel.
3) the UN is what defined what is and what isn't a refugee. In Arab culture you take the nationality of what your father is. I'm pretty sure neither Arafat nor his father ever had Egyptian citizenship since their patrilieal ancestry is Palestinian. Being born in an Arab country doesn't automatically give you citizenship of that country (I would know, I was born in the UAE but do not hold Emirati citizenship). Furthermore, this isn't a Palestinian only definition of what is or what isn't a refugee. There are 200,000 Iraqis currently living in Jordan without being granted Jordanian citizenship. In fact 40% of Palestinian refugees in Jordan were granted citizenship, something Iraqis don't enjoy. This comment seems like a thinly veiled attempt to deligitimize the Palestinians existence and I'm not going into that argument. The fact is, both Palestinians and Israelis exist today whether either side likes it or not. Neither side is leaving, so they better find a way to live with each other.
I really hate to think its just the power of AIPAC… for if that's the case, then your government really is fundamentally corrupt. No, I don't think that's the reason… but I have no idea what it could be.
Uhh no, that's exactly what it is Brian. Lobbies win.
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Originally Posted by Free Ben Hur!
This struck me as a frank and objective perspective from a former director of Israels Shin Bet.
Essential reading for anyone who contributes to this thread, I imagine.
It's not without it's own bias (though it helps to have two different people on two different sides having an honest go at the current situation), but one of the main points that there is no moral high ground to be had, and that neither nation is one to be proud of or anymore defensible than the other, is an important one.
Thanks for posting that. If only there were more of these guys on both sides.
There are a lot more than the airtime they receive would indicate.
Unfortunately, the substance of their commentary is often overlooked in favour of attacking their character.
It's already happened in this thread; 'radical leftist', 'self loathing jew', 'holocaust denier' have become synonyms in some israeli circles for 'humanist'.
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There are a lot more than the airtime they receive would indicate.
Unfortunately, the substance of their commentary is often overlooked in favour of attacking their character.
It's already happened in this thread; 'radical leftist', 'self loathing jew', 'holocaust denier' have become synonyms in some israeli circles for 'humanist'.
MY favourite to date has been "Hamas Truthers"
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