Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Go Back   Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community > Main Forums > The Off Topic Forum
Register Forum Rules FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-30-2014, 07:42 PM   #1341
Flames Fan, Ph.D.
#1 Goaltender
 
Flames Fan, Ph.D.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Underground
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by J epworth kendal View Post
Don't want to get in a big philosophical discussion about this, but in Canada we are a liberal democracy, and with our liberal values that includes freedom to live your life as you see fit, as long as it doesn't infringe on freedoms of others. When speech or propaganda targets a certain group and makes that group feel oppressed, the speech is infringing on the freedoms of the group.
I'd be shocked if that was the legal standard in Canada.
Flames Fan, Ph.D. is offline  
Old 07-30-2014, 09:23 PM   #1342
octothorp
Franchise Player
 
octothorp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: not lurking
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D. View Post
I'd be shocked if that was the legal standard in Canada.
Yeah, it's not. Laws are complicated, but unless it's directly promoting genocide, there's a lot of leeway. When you look at David Ahenakew's horrifically offensive comments and realize that those were not considered hate speech, you realize just how hard it is to make hate speech charges stick in canada.

Last edited by octothorp; 07-31-2014 at 12:07 PM.
octothorp is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to octothorp For This Useful Post:
Old 07-30-2014, 10:33 PM   #1343
blankall
Ate 100 Treadmills
 
blankall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Q_ View Post
Yeah you're absolutely right.

But I think a major reason why Egypt blockades Gaza is because of that peace treaty. In essence, allowing that border to open would be a declaration of war in Israel and nullification of the Peace treaty. Make no mistake about it though, Gazans and Hamas aren't big fans of that situation.
No.

Egypt imposes a blockade, because

1) Hamas is dangerous. They've attacked multiple targets in the Sinai Pininsula in the past.

2) Hamas is affiliated with the Muslim Brotherhood. An organization trying to over run Egypt.

3) Egypt (and the other states) want to keep Palestinian refugees as Palestinian refugees. After 1949, Egypt and the other Arab states had the rules of what makes a refugee changed for this particular situation. Anyone who had been in what is now Israel for 2 or more years or their descendents were considered Palestinian refugees. The Arab states then stripped these people of citizenship and property. Yasser Arafat's dad had Egyptian citizenship (so did Yasser) and property. After 1949, the Egyptian government confiscated his land and removed his citizenship, as he had been living in what is no Gaza.

If Egypt opens the border, the Palestinians will move to Egypt. They will cease to be Israel's problem. The military option failed in 1949, so the Arab states would ensure a demographic weapon. All of Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Iraq, and Jordan have had all sorts of migration across their borders. The only Arabs denied citizenship are the Palestinian ones.
blankall is online now  
Old 07-31-2014, 02:28 AM   #1344
spiteface
Powerplay Quarterback
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Exp:
Default

"United Nations officials said that they had informed Israel 17 times of the precise location of the school and that there were civilians sheltering there, including once at 8:50 p.m., just hours before the attack on Wednesday."

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/31/wo...tack.html?_r=0
__________________
VAMOS !!!
spiteface is offline  
Old 07-31-2014, 08:24 AM   #1345
AltaGuy
AltaGuy has a magnetic personality and exudes positive energy, which is infectious to those around him. He has an unparalleled ability to communicate with people, whether he is speaking to a room of three or an arena of 30,000.
 
AltaGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: At le pub...
Exp:
Default

All of these civilian deaths in Gaza. A ceasefire will happen in a week, or two, or five, and does anyone truly believe that Israel will be a safer place because of this collective punishment? It may take Hamas et al a few months, or maybe a year, to rearm with rockets. And then begin it all again. What a pointless waste of life.
AltaGuy is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to AltaGuy For This Useful Post:
Old 07-31-2014, 09:15 AM   #1346
_Q_
#1 Goaltender
 
_Q_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blankall View Post
No.

Egypt imposes a blockade, because

1) Hamas is dangerous. They've attacked multiple targets in the Sinai Pininsula in the past.

2) Hamas is affiliated with the Muslim Brotherhood. An organization trying to over run Egypt.

3) Egypt (and the other states) want to keep Palestinian refugees as Palestinian refugees. After 1949, Egypt and the other Arab states had the rules of what makes a refugee changed for this particular situation. Anyone who had been in what is now Israel for 2 or more years or their descendents were considered Palestinian refugees. The Arab states then stripped these people of citizenship and property. Yasser Arafat's dad had Egyptian citizenship (so did Yasser) and property. After 1949, the Egyptian government confiscated his land and removed his citizenship, as he had been living in what is no Gaza.

If Egypt opens the border, the Palestinians will move to Egypt. They will cease to be Israel's problem. The military option failed in 1949, so the Arab states would ensure a demographic weapon. All of Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Iraq, and Jordan have had all sorts of migration across their borders. The only Arabs denied citizenship are the Palestinian ones.
1) Those are all allegations right now and as of yet are still unproven.

2) Huh? Until very recently the Muslim Brotherhood were ruling Egypt, but the blockade continued in order to not upset Israel.

3) the UN is what defined what is and what isn't a refugee. In Arab culture you take the nationality of what your father is. I'm pretty sure neither Arafat nor his father ever had Egyptian citizenship since their patrilieal ancestry is Palestinian. Being born in an Arab country doesn't automatically give you citizenship of that country (I would know, I was born in the UAE but do not hold Emirati citizenship). Furthermore, this isn't a Palestinian only definition of what is or what isn't a refugee. There are 200,000 Iraqis currently living in Jordan without being granted Jordanian citizenship. In fact 40% of Palestinian refugees in Jordan were granted citizenship, something Iraqis don't enjoy. This comment seems like a thinly veiled attempt to deligitimize the Palestinians existence and I'm not going into that argument. The fact is, both Palestinians and Israelis exist today whether either side likes it or not. Neither side is leaving, so they better find a way to live with each other.

Last edited by _Q_; 07-31-2014 at 09:22 AM.
_Q_ is offline  
Old 07-31-2014, 09:16 AM   #1347
Flash Walken
Lifetime Suspension
 
Flash Walken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Void between Darkness and Light
Exp:
Default

These are real people.

A thousand, real people, shock and awe'd to death.

Flash Walken is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Flash Walken For This Useful Post:
Old 07-31-2014, 09:30 AM   #1348
photon
The new goggles also do nothing.
 
photon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

I found this a very interesting read.

http://davidbyrne.com/gaza-and-the-loss-of-civilization
__________________
Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
photon is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to photon For This Useful Post:
Old 07-31-2014, 09:43 AM   #1349
nik-
Franchise Player
 
nik-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by photon View Post
I found this a very interesting read.

http://davidbyrne.com/gaza-and-the-loss-of-civilization
Quote:
I really hate to think its just the power of AIPAC… for if that's the case, then your government really is fundamentally corrupt. No, I don't think that's the reason… but I have no idea what it could be.
Uhh no, that's exactly what it is Brian. Lobbies win.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJoji View Post
Johnny eats garbage and isn’t 100% committed.
nik- is offline  
Old 07-31-2014, 10:21 AM   #1350
Flash Walken
Lifetime Suspension
 
Flash Walken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Void between Darkness and Light
Exp:
Default

Of course, it's not JUST the AIPAC, but the foreign policy apparatus which has even more powerful lobbies.
Flash Walken is offline  
Old 07-31-2014, 10:23 AM   #1351
Flash Walken
Lifetime Suspension
 
Flash Walken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Void between Darkness and Light
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by photon View Post
I found this a very interesting read.

http://davidbyrne.com/gaza-and-the-loss-of-civilization
The chorus of outrage in regards to indiscriminate killing weapons utilized by the Israeli's has been deafening in its silence.

"Won't someone think of the rockets!?"
Flash Walken is offline  
Old 07-31-2014, 10:24 AM   #1352
nik-
Franchise Player
 
nik-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Exp:
Default

I would say it's more the Christian right.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJoji View Post
Johnny eats garbage and isn’t 100% committed.
nik- is offline  
Old 07-31-2014, 10:26 AM   #1353
Free Ben Hur!
Scoring Winger
 
Free Ben Hur!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Judea
Exp:
Default

This struck me as a frank and objective perspective from a former director of Israels Shin Bet.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-982094.html
__________________
'Bieber definitely merits $1M per show' - sun
Free Ben Hur! is offline  
The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to Free Ben Hur! For This Useful Post:
Old 07-31-2014, 10:53 AM   #1354
AltaGuy
AltaGuy has a magnetic personality and exudes positive energy, which is infectious to those around him. He has an unparalleled ability to communicate with people, whether he is speaking to a room of three or an arena of 30,000.
 
AltaGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: At le pub...
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Free Ben Hur! View Post
This struck me as a frank and objective perspective from a former director of Israels Shin Bet.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-982094.html
Thanks for posting that. If only there were more of these guys on both sides.
AltaGuy is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to AltaGuy For This Useful Post:
Old 07-31-2014, 10:57 AM   #1355
Chill Cosby
Lifetime Suspension
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by photon View Post
I found this a very interesting read.

http://davidbyrne.com/gaza-and-the-loss-of-civilization

Essential reading for anyone who contributes to this thread, I imagine.

It's not without it's own bias (though it helps to have two different people on two different sides having an honest go at the current situation), but one of the main points that there is no moral high ground to be had, and that neither nation is one to be proud of or anymore defensible than the other, is an important one.
Chill Cosby is offline  
Old 07-31-2014, 11:15 AM   #1356
Flash Walken
Lifetime Suspension
 
Flash Walken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Void between Darkness and Light
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AltaGuy View Post
Thanks for posting that. If only there were more of these guys on both sides.
There are a lot more than the airtime they receive would indicate.

Unfortunately, the substance of their commentary is often overlooked in favour of attacking their character.

It's already happened in this thread; 'radical leftist', 'self loathing jew', 'holocaust denier' have become synonyms in some israeli circles for 'humanist'.
Flash Walken is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Flash Walken For This Useful Post:
Old 07-31-2014, 11:18 AM   #1357
Flames Fan, Ph.D.
#1 Goaltender
 
Flames Fan, Ph.D.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Underground
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash Walken View Post
There are a lot more than the airtime they receive would indicate.

Unfortunately, the substance of their commentary is often overlooked in favour of attacking their character.

It's already happened in this thread; 'radical leftist', 'self loathing jew', 'holocaust denier' have become synonyms in some israeli circles for 'humanist'.
MY favourite to date has been "Hamas Truthers"
Flames Fan, Ph.D. is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Flames Fan, Ph.D. For This Useful Post:
Old 07-31-2014, 11:37 AM   #1358
Flash Walken
Lifetime Suspension
 
Flash Walken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Void between Darkness and Light
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D. View Post
MY favourite to date has been "Hamas Truthers"
I really liked when Nage called that Rabbi who's family had perished in german death camps a 'holocaust denier'.
Flash Walken is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Flash Walken For This Useful Post:
Old 07-31-2014, 11:41 AM   #1359
Flamenspiel
Lifetime Suspension
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Exp:
Default

Interesting article from the Globe and Mail:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle19871136/
Flamenspiel is offline  
Old 07-31-2014, 12:22 PM   #1360
Nage Waza
Offered up a bag of cans for a custom user title
 
Nage Waza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Westside
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flamenspiel View Post
Interesting article from the Globe and Mail:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle19871136/
Good article, and I believe a desire across the board to destroy groups like Hamas would be very good for the region.
Nage Waza is offline  
Closed Thread


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:35 PM.

Calgary Flames
2024-25




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2021 | See Our Privacy Policy