2023/2024 Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread

[devo22]

I'd happily move Markstrom with retention in the summer. But right now, those three slots have to be for Hanifin, Tanev and Lindholm ... absolutely have to maximize those returns.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by butterfly

It's pretty relevant when you claim he's "very valuable" at $3M. Try to answer it?

What's irrelevant is whether or not I like Markstrom. I like him because he's a Flame. I think he has negative value.

I think at 50% there would be a handful of decision makers that would take Calgary over Dallas and Vancouver over St. Louis as examples of the guy having value.

[butterfly]

Just awfully puzzling to me how anyone thinks Markstrom has value. There are 18 goalies who are playing and make $1M or less.

Wedgewood, Talbot, Montembeault, Soderblom, Levi, Lyon, Primeau, Ersson, Schmid, Luukkonen, Quick, Dostal, Prosvetov, Johansson, Hofer, Thompson, Woll, Martin.

Their record is 101-76, 2.95 GAA, .904 SV%. Markstrom is 6-8, 2.95 GAA, .896 SV%. You'd pay a $2 million premium and trade prospects/picks for that?

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Just awfully puzzling to me how anyone thinks Markstrom has value. There are 18 goalies who are playing and make $1M or less.

Wedgewood, Talbot, Montembeault, Soderblom, Levi, Lyon, Primeau, Ersson, Schmid, Luukkonen, Quick, Dostal, Prosvetov, Johansson, Hofer, Thompson, Woll, Martin.

Their record is 101-76, 2.95 GAA, .904 SV%. Markstrom is 6-8, 2.95 GAA, .896 SV%. You'd pay a $2 million premium and trade prospects/picks for that?

Now how many of those goalies are available for trade?

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Now how many of those goalies are available for trade?

Probably none because they're all earning their keep! There are players like this floating around the European leagues and ECHL waiting for a chance to make league minimum in the NHL. Call one and give up nothing.

[CliffFletcher]

“Goalies are voodoo” has become a meme. But it seems more true today than it was in the past. I don’t think I’m looking through rose-coloured classes when I remember there being far less fluctuation in goalie performance year to year, or in who the top 10 or or so goalies in the league were.

So what changed? Have goalies become so athletic and well-trained that variables like confidence and the play in front them have much more of an impact than they used to?

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Just awfully puzzling to me how anyone thinks Markstrom has value. There are 18 goalies who are playing and make $1M or less.

Wedgewood, Talbot, Montembeault, Soderblom, Levi, Lyon, Primeau, Ersson, Schmid, Luukkonen, Quick, Dostal, Prosvetov, Johansson, Hofer, Thompson, Woll, Martin.

Their record is 101-76, 2.95 GAA, .904 SV%. Markstrom is 6-8, 2.95 GAA, .896 SV%. You'd pay a $2 million premium and trade prospects/picks for that?

You don't question your judgement on the player when EVERYONE but you thinks the player has value if the flames retain salary?

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

“Goalies are voodoo” has become a meme. But it seems more true today than it was in the past. I don’t think I’m looking through rose-coloured classes when I remember there being far less fluctuation in goalie performance year to year, or in who the top 10 or or so goalies in the league were.

So what changed? Have goalies become so athletic and well-trained that variables like confidence and the play in front them have much more of an impact than they used to?

Yeah, this is an extremely interesting question to me. I don't have the first idea about how to answer it.

I would guess (and have no evidence for this) that a lot more goals these days are scored via close-in deflections which renders goaltending rather random.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

This year's Markstrom would be in the .910s behind a playoff caliber roster. Easily.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

You don't question your judgement on the player when EVERYONE but you thinks the player has value if the flames retain salary?

I'll question my judgment if you provide evidence to the contrary. Right now I see a group of people making close to league minimum doing the same as Markstrom.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Probably none because they're all earning their keep! There are players like this floating around the European leagues and ECHL waiting for a chance to make league minimum in the NHL. Call one and give up nothing.

I think you are grossly underestimating how hard it is to make the jump into the NHL. Can you find a single example of a guy who went ECHL directly into a starter role in the NHL?

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

“Goalies are voodoo” has become a meme. But it seems more true today than it was in the past. I don’t think I’m looking through rose-coloured classes when I remember there being far less fluctuation in goalie performance year to year, or in who the top 10 or or so goalies in the league were.

So what changed? Have goalies become so athletic and well-trained that variables like confidence and the play in front them have much more of an impact than they used to?

General ability and equipment has improved for the skaters while goalie equipment was actually nerfed. I bet save percentage would be a lot better if goalies could still look the michelin man

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

This year's Markstrom would be in the .910s behind a playoff caliber roster. Easily.

This year's Mrazek actually has a .909 on the worst team in the league.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by butterfly

I'll question my judgment if you provide evidence to the contrary. Right now I see a group of people making close to league minimum doing the same as Markstrom.

The Flames' role in those numbers is huge though.

They're giving up breakaways and 2 on 0s almost nightly and letting a number of players skate down main street un-touched each and every game. The Flames are probably a bottom 3 team for difficulty to stop pucks behind.

Any of those league minimum goalies play behind this team and they're going to do worse than markstrom has.

A goalie has to damn near break his back to finish a game with good NHL stats here (like Vladars game against Vegas at home)

[shutout]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Bobrovsky has negative value, not zero value. I don't think anyone would argue with me on that one.

unless he is back stopping your team to the Stanley Cup finals
then I would say he is considered very valuable

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

The Flames' role in those numbers is huge though.

They're giving up breakaways and 2 on 0s almost nightly and letting a number of players skate down main street un-touched each and every game. The Flames are probably a bottom 3 team for difficulty to stop pucks behind.

If this is true, you have a good point. MoneyPuck has the Flames allowing the 12th fewest high danger shots against, 27th fewest medium danger shots against, and 15th fewest low danger shots against. They're average on high/low and pretty bad at medium, which an average goalie shouldn't have an inordinate problem with.

They're 21st at giveaways. 1 more than Washington and 1 fewer than Winnipeg. It just doesn't seem to explain the mediocre goaltending.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Just awfully puzzling to me how anyone thinks Markstrom has value. There are 18 goalies who are playing and make $1M or less.

Wedgewood, Talbot, Montembeault, Soderblom, Levi, Lyon, Primeau, Ersson, Schmid, Luukkonen, Quick, Dostal, Prosvetov, Johansson, Hofer, Thompson, Woll, Martin.

Their record is 101-76, 2.95 GAA, .904 SV%. Markstrom is 6-8, 2.95 GAA, .896 SV%. You'd pay a $2 million premium and trade prospects/picks for that?

It's puzzling because you're only applying your own filter.

If you ask yourself who is available? Who has won a playoff series? And who has gas left in the tank? ... you'll find the list changes a lot.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by shutout

unless he is back stopping your team to the Stanley Cup finals
then I would say he is considered very valuable

Value is what you'd give up for something. What would you trade New Jersey for Nemec? A lot. What would you trade Chicago for their 2024 1st rounder? A lot.

What would you trade Florida for Bobrovsky at 3x$10M?

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by Bingo

It's puzzling because you're only applying your own filter.

If you ask yourself who is available? Who has won a playoff series? And who has gas left in the tank? ... you'll find the list changes a lot.

Well 2 of those questions probably put him lower, but you never know, there's probably a few GMs that still think something of him.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Bingo

It's puzzling because you're only applying your own filter.

If you ask yourself who is available? Who has won a playoff series? And who has gas left in the tank? ... you'll find the list changes a lot.

Which of those teams I listed wants to trade Calgary picks and prospects in order to pay Markstrom 3x$3M?

Who has won a playoff series isn't how GMs should be looking at it. It's who will win a playoff series that hasn't happened yet. And there are very few goaltenders left in the league older than Markstrom.