Calgary Civic Election: Mayoralty Poll #4 - The Heat is On

[Muta]

Originally Posted by jjgallow

Budget-wise, McIvor has stated goals for fiscal responsibility. Nenshi really doesn't. Neither really have a solid plan for fiscal responsibility.

Nenshi is more eloquent,and ironically more of a politician by disposition.

Nenshi probably has more vision, McIvor has more realism.

Nenshi will rely on studies and consultation, McIvor will rely on constituents.

They've got pluses and minus...good luck.

A great city is founded on pioneers that spearhead change and growth, whether there's a financial component associated to it or not.

In order to achieve a great city, investment has to be made. However, this doesn't necessarily mean spending money. It means making wise decisions. Sometimes money is a part of that.

I don't want someone as leader of this city that will continually shoot things down because it might cost something. I want someone that will always consider everything, no matter what the final decision will be. Spending money is a good thing, as long as its done right.

I also want someone who's seen the trenches of other governments and businesses outside of Calgary, in order to bring the best elements of that experience to the benefit of our city. Nenshi has that experience. McIver and Higgins do not. There's a big shiny world outside of southern Alberta to learn from and to contribute to, and Nenshi, in my opinion, is the only one that sees that. That's why I was drawn to his campaign right off the bat.

Nenshi is the only one that fits the profile of a new generation leader for a city that's making a big step into a new generation of technology, population, and financial climate. That international experience is not just needed in today's knowledge-based economies; it's now a requirement.

[Flames0910]

So, can anyone recommend a good comparison of the platforms between Nenshi and McIver? Trying to get some research in, have read about 20 pages of this thread, but still don't have a good handle on things.

I am down to those two; I am curious about Nenshi, but am concerned he may be too Liberal for my tastes. Basically I need to see if there is anything compelling about Nenshi, and if not I will be fine with McIver. Just trying to get some good comparisons between the 2, and am getting bogged down in the recent stuff about donor lists.

Honestly their platforms are very similar. McIver has his Dr. No reputation, but he has pretty much come out as a completely different person for this campaign.

Look at the two people. Watch a few debates or listen to some of the radio footage. Take a look at each website.

And then make a judgement based off who you think will do the best job of implementing their platform. I just finished watching Dexter (no bong tho!) so let's just say you'll have to make a leap of faith

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Flames0910

I just finished watching Dexter

Yeah, good thing I got that out of the way tonight. Now I'll have time to vote tomorrow.

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by jjgallow

What concerns me more than lack of experience, is considerable experience with little to show for it. That's my worry with Ric McIvor. Is it fair? I don't know. But I'm not impressed with his record, or council's record as a whole, over the last decade.

Nenshi isn't that bad. However, this forum is already focused almost entirely on Nenshi and he just doesn't have the votes. It's between Barb and Ric. That's just how it goes...I don't make the rules.

The choice: No experience but a fresh face with a strong presence, or lots of experience and a guy who still has Race City Speedway as one of the main issues in his platform.

That's all there is...we could compare them to Obama if you like, but it'll be Barb or Ric winning tomorrow.

So you're not going to anwser my questions then? Going back to "it's between Barb and Ric"? Really?

Sorry JJ, talk around my very valid points all you like, personally I will never consider voting in a mayor elect with such a dearth of experience. You want to try and convince us (Nenshi supporters) that we should not bother voting for Naheed (despite his clearly being the most qualified, as you yourself have now conceded) because he has no chance and instead we should vote for the least qualified candidate because she is a "fresh face"...? I think Oscar Fech would also be a fresh face and to be quite frank, he is much more qualified then Barb, I think you should vote for him.

Barb is a newsreader, and I do not mean to put her down, she seems very nice (when not being questioned in any way, shape or form) but it is absolute laugh to think she could or would ever be mayor.

Edit: And what is with the "that's the way it goes, I dont make the rules" line? Go and take a peak at the Herald's (endorsed McIver) last poll which showed there being only 3% point difference between all three candidates, not to mention the handful of other polls linked in this thread that all show Nenshi CLEARY being in the race. Just because you keep saying it is a two person race does not make it any closer to the truth.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by jjgallow

Nenshi isn't that bad. However, this forum is already focused almost entirely on Nenshi and he just doesn't have the votes. It's between Barb and Ric. That's just how it goes...I don't make the rules.

Just because you keep saying it over and over doesn't make it true. The blogger you linked to has already shown to be clueless. Nice try.

The fact is every media outlet in town has already reported a three-way race. Even if the poll was flawed, now that everyone believes it it's self-fulfilling. People believe that Nenshi can win, and because of that, Nenshi will win. They won't strategic vote for Higgins or McIver because the Herald, the Sun, Metro, and 24 have told them that Nenshi can win. Besides, that poll was October 5-12th. Nenshi's support has only ever gone in direction.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by kipperfan

Barb is a newsreader, and I do not mean to put her down, she seems very nice (when not being questioned in any way, shapre or form) but it is absolute laugh to think she could or would be mayor.

I'm not a Barb supporter but to suggest all she did was read a teleprompter is not true. She has stated that she did the research behind some of the news stories. Beisdes she's not employed to do the suppercast news and then go home.

She will lose because the campain was so poorly planned and her policies came out way too late. She should have run for an aldermanic postion and learned the ropes and then ran for Mayor.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by jjgallow

Nenshi isn't that bad. However, this forum is already focused almost entirely on Nenshi and he just doesn't have the votes. It's between Barb and Ric. That's just how it goes...I don't make the rules.

You must not be following the polls as Nenshi has risen in everyone. Barb will finish a distant 3rd as she doesn't have the experience. Name recognition has gotten her as far as she has - that's it.

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by Dion

I'm not a Barb supporter but to suggest all she did was read a teleprompter is not true. She has stated that she did the research behind some of the news stories. Beisdes she's not employed to do the suppercast news and then go home.

She will lose because the campain was so poorly planned and her policies came out way too late. She should have run for an aldermanic postion and learned the ropes and then ran for Mayor.

She stated she did research behind "some of the news stories"? Even if she did, what does that even mean? I know she did not actually go out and report on the news, she never broke any stories, she was never a field reporter. Did she even write her own copy? From my understanding she did not. When she left CFCN, on her final show they did a little recap piece on all the "great" stuff she did during her tenure. The only stories they even mentioned her having worked on, despite her usual desk duties, were a handful of public interest pieces she did over the years. More then likely these were the stories she "did research" on.

But whatever though, as you said in you last post Barb is likely not going to be a factor tommorow so this whole debate is moot.

Edit: And it appears JJ is gone...shocker.

[jjgallow]

Originally Posted by kipperfan

So you're not going to anwser my questions then? Going back to "it's between Barb and Ric"? Really?

You want me to talk about Nenshi? I'm not sure what you think I've dodged, honestly. Nenshi is not bad. Nenshi has often misquote the other candidates, however. I've seen him make claims about the other candidate's platforms and websites, and when I checked, he was wrong.

He often refers to studies but rarely references them. He constantly reminds the public that he is smart and that the other candidates are stupid. Then he uses the color "Purple" conjur support, which, to me, says that he thinks the public is also stupid.

He constantly reminds us of his business experience, and neglects to mention that he has never ran or worked for a business that did anything other than an extenstion of academic consulation. His experience is strictly academic, and occasionally extends to consultation.

His platform is full of promises that are impossible to achieve and essentially mean nothing, like "every community will be a safe community".

He is, without question, the most arrogant candidate.

His tactics are cheasy, and distateful. I remember watching him at a Philipino community forum where each candidate was instructed to introduce themselves and focus on their own platform. Naheed was given the last turn to speak, and instead of following code, he blasted all the other candidates. They were given no opportunity for rebuttle, and much of what he said was in fact made up.

His record scares me the most.

He claims to have designed major policy for the Alberta government. First of all, I would not brag about this. Second of all, it does not appear that any of it actually became policy.

His claims regarding The Gap, etc., are similar. I see nothing resulting of consequence from any of them.

He even brings up his presidency at the UofC students Union, which was basically powerless and incurred all sorts of mis-spending and tuition hikes.

At the end of the day, I see a lot of talk. I'm not saying Barb is any better or worse. I just don't see anything concrete, other than academics.

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by jjgallow

You want me to talk about Nenshi? I'm not sure what you think I've dodged, honestly. Nenshi is not bad. Nenshi has often misquote the other candidates, however. I've seen him make claims about the other candidate's platforms and websites, and when I checked, he was wrong.

He often refers to studies but rarely references them. He constantly reminds the public that he is smart and that the other candidates are stupid. Then he uses the color "Purple" conjur support, which, to me, says that he thinks the public is also stupid.

He constantly reminds us of his business experience, and neglects to mention that he has never ran or worked for a business that did anything other than an extenstion of academic consulation. His experience is strictly academic, and occasionally extends to consultation.

His platform is full of promises that are impossible to achieve and essentially mean nothing, like "every community will be a safe community".

He is, without question, the most arrogant candidate.

His tactics are cheasy, and distateful. I remember watching him at a Philipino community forum where each candidate was instructed to introduce themselves and focus on their own platform. Naheed was given the last turn to speak, and instead of following code, he blasted all the other candidates. They were given no opportunity for rebuttle, and much of what he said was in fact made up.

His record scares me the most.

He claims to have designed major policy for the Alberta government. First of all, I would not brag about this. Second of all, it does not appear that any of it actually became policy.

His claims regarding The Gap, etc., are similar. I see nothing resulting of consequence from any of them.

He even brings up his presidency at the UofC students Union, which was basically powerless and incurred all sorts of mis-spending and tuition hikes.

At the end of the day, I see a lot of talk. I'm not saying Barb is any better or worse. I just don't see anything concrete, other than academics.

Can you read friend? My questions to you were as follows:

Are you not a little concerned that she has not a lick of experience, not just with regards to municpal governence but with regards to....well, basically anything? Does it not concern you that your choice for the next mayor of Calgary has done nothing but read from a teleprompter for the past 25 years?

Enough BS, she has the least experience of any candidate and we have a three horse race, I see no reason anyone would vote for her.

[jjgallow]

Originally Posted by SebC

Even if the poll was flawed, now that everyone believes it it's self-fulfilling. People believe that Nenshi can win, and because of that, Nenshi will win.

Advanced polls were huge this year. Even if Nenshi won in tomorrow's voting, he could still finish third. More importantly, the Leger poll definitely was flawed and while you are correct that it may sway some voters, it does not change the fact that all other polls put him in a distant third.

http://www.calgarybeacon.com/2010/10...rnout-in-2010/

[Dion]

Originally Posted by kipperfan

She stated she did research behind "some of the news stories"? Even if she did, what does that even mean? I know she did not actually go out and report on the news, she never broke any stories, she was never a field reporter. Did she even write her own copy?

From my understanding she did not.

Higgins has won numerous awards during her time at CTV and has written and produced a number of documentaries and features on topics ranging from the situation facing homeless Calgarians to profiling the fight of a former Calgary firefighter to get benefits from the Workers Compensation Board.

http://calgary.ctv.ca/servlet/an/loc...ub=CalgaryHome

Journalism is often described as a profession that must be carried out in a dispassionate or even detached manner, but Higgins has found that by becoming more involved with the city's social agencies she has evolved as a journalist and a person.

Co-chair of the 2007 United Way of Calgary and Area campaign, Higgins says her continuing exposure to social issues has helped her become a more compassionate human being and more informed journalist.
Last winter, Higgins spent a night at the temporary homelss shelter that was then located in downtown Calgary.

It was an experience, she says, that changed her life.

"They are not numbers, they're not problems," she says. "They're people."

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/...f-b79af75190d6

Sadly, for many Calgarians these aren’t hypothetical questions, but everyday realities. CTV and United Way of Calgary and Area are partnering to bring you closer to these and other realities that are keeping us from being a truly GreatCity.

The concept is simple: visit www.GreatCity.ca and read CTV news anchor Barb Higgins’ blog about her experiences with Calgarians who are struggling.

While many enjoy Calgary’s growing prosperity, others are finding it difficult to make ends meet. Share your thoughts about what you’ve read on the wall, or in the Forum on GreatCity.ca. We want to hear from you!

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=18219689792

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by Dion

Higgins has won numerous awards during her time at CTV and has written and produced a number of documentaries and features on topics ranging from the situation facing homeless Calgarians to profiling the fight of a former Calgary firefighter to get benefits from the Workers Compensation Board.

http://calgary.ctv.ca/servlet/an/loc...ub=CalgaryHome

Journalism is often described as a profession that must be carried out in a dispassionate or even detached manner, but Higgins has found that by becoming more involved with the city's social agencies she has evolved as a journalist and a person.

Co-chair of the 2007 United Way of Calgary and Area campaign, Higgins says her continuing exposure to social issues has helped her become a more compassionate human being and more informed journalist.
Last winter, Higgins spent a night at the temporary homelss shelter that was then located in downtown Calgary.

It was an experience, she says, that changed her life.

"They are not numbers, they're not problems," she says. "They're people."

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/...f-b79af75190d6

Sadly, for many Calgarians these aren’t hypothetical questions, but everyday realities. CTV and United Way of Calgary and Area are partnering to bring you closer to these and other realities that are keeping us from being a truly GreatCity.

The concept is simple: visit www.GreatCity.ca and read CTV news anchor Barb Higgins’ blog about her experiences with Calgarians who are struggling.

While many enjoy Calgary’s growing prosperity, others are finding it difficult to make ends meet. Share your thoughts about what you’ve read on the wall, or in the Forum on GreatCity.ca. We want to hear from you!

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=18219689792

Yep, a few public interest pieces like I imagined (and previously stated). And working with the United Way, in one campaign, three years ago...yep that resume of hers is certainly brimming.

[FiftyBelow]

Goodness gracious, jjgallow is like a non-stop propaganda producing machine. Normally I'd try to engage in political discussions - considering that political science is right up my alley - but considering that you completely ignore any of the arguments that everyone else has put forward and simply restate what you've been saying the whole time without any evidence... I'm not going to even bother wasting my time considering that you'll ignore most of what I state anyways. How much is Barb paying you? From what I understand its almost 1:30 am in Calgary and you've been at it for 5 hours... maybe more. Give it a rest, if you're not going to debate properly you might as well leave it to one of her Robophones because clearly a real person isn't doing the job well for her anyways.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by kipperfan

Yep, a few public interest pieces like I imagined (and previously stated). And working with the United Way, in one campaign, three years ago...yep that resume of hers is certainly brimming.

I wasn't suggesting her resume is brimming. Just that she did a lot more on the job than reading a teleprompter. Anyhoo she'll be looking for another media job on Tuesday morning

[SebC]

Originally Posted by jjgallow

Advanced polls were huge this year. Even if Nenshi won in tomorrow's voting, he could still finish third. More importantly, the Leger poll definitely was flawed and while you are correct that it may sway some voters, it does not change the fact that all other polls put him in a distant third.

http://www.calgarybeacon.com/2010/10...rnout-in-2010/

I know. 3.6% of eligible voters cast advance polls. Let's say 36% election turnout: 10% of voters have already cast their ballots. Amongst them: election day volunteers (of which Nenshi has many), students (polls at SAIT, MRU, U of C). I'd also guess that the advance polls have a higher share of wasted ballots (Hehr, Hawkesworth, Stewart, etc.) than the regular polls will.

You know what the other (older) polls putting Nenshi shows, when taken in conjunction with the Leger poll? Momentum.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by jjgallow

You want me to talk about Nenshi? I'm not sure what you think I've dodged, honestly. Nenshi is not bad. Nenshi has often misquote the other candidates, however. I've seen him make claims about the other candidate's platforms and websites, and when I checked, he was wrong.

The master of misinformation, undoubtedly, has been Hawkesworth. He's now on team Higgins. And if you're talking about Nenshi's comments on Higgins development policy, well that's because she changed her website when she contradicted it at a forum.

He often refers to studies but rarely references them. He constantly reminds the public that he is smart and that the other candidates are stupid. Then he uses the color "Purple" conjur support, which, to me, says that he thinks the public is also stupid.

Please explain this leap on logic. We're not supporting him because of purple, we're purple because we're supporting him. It's important we do so to discredit claims that Nenshi doesn't have enough support to win. How about the other candidates? McIver is telling the public he's for sustainable development, when his record indicates he isn't. If he thinks the public will buy it, is that because he thinks they're stupid? Higgins tells a crowd at a forum that they wouldn't be interested in her explanation of how she's going to do something. Is that not condescending? How about running a campaign without a platform... isn't she counting on the public being stupid enough to not care?

He constantly reminds us of his business experience, and neglects to mention that he has never ran or worked for a business that did anything other than an extenstion of academic consulation. His experience is strictly academic, and occasionally extends to consultation.

Okay, what's wrong with consulting?

His platform is full of promises that are impossible to achieve and essentially mean nothing, like "every community will be a safe community".

Yes, that's called a title. You have to read the supporting material for details. Higgins: "Vibrant cities are safe cities. Safety is non-negociable."

He is, without question, the most arrogant candidate.

Without question? How arrogant do you have to be to think you can run a city with no relevant experience? How arrogant do you have to be to talk about transparency while not showing up at forums and debates? How arrongant do you have to be to think that people should elect you without a platform? How arrogant do you have to be to tell the public you're a fiscal conservative while giving away money to developers (okay, that one's McIver)?

His tactics are cheasy, and distateful. I remember watching him at a Philipino community forum where each candidate was instructed to introduce themselves and focus on their own platform. Naheed was given the last turn to speak, and instead of following code, he blasted all the other candidates. They were given no opportunity for rebuttle, and much of what he said was in fact made up.

Didn't attend, can't comment.

His record scares me the most.

He claims to have designed major policy for the Alberta government. First of all, I would not brag about this. Second of all, it does not appear that any of it actually became policy.

... substantiate please.

His claims regarding The Gap, etc., are similar. I see nothing resulting of consequence from any of them.

... how the heck would you?

He even brings up his presidency at the UofC students Union, which was basically powerless and incurred all sorts of mis-spending and tuition hikes.

When he became president of the U of C SU it was a non-profit organization with a large budget running a deficit. When he left, it was a non-profit organization with a large budget running a surplus. That's more relevant to his ability to be mayor than anything Higgins has done in her life.

At the end of the day, I see a lot of talk. I'm not saying Barb is any better or worse. I just don't see anything concrete, other than academics.

Because consulting = academics, right?

How the hell is consolidating the business taxes not a concrete idea? (Oh wait, you thought that meant "increase business tax".) Legalizing secondary suites in all residentially areas where the owner lives on the premises, there is an off-street parking space or an LRT or BRT stop within 500 m and all building codes are complied with - too vague for you? Ending the practice of having auditor reports vetted by City management prior to being presented to Council? External audit of the auditor every three years?
Build the airport tunnel with an LRT right-of-way, BRT route, and downtown-to-airport BRT? Eliminate the park and ride fee? Restrict campaign donations to election years? Hard cap on campain budgets? Require that campaign surpluses be given away? Increase the minimum density of jobs and people from 60 people and jobs per hectar to 70? Post all council members' expenses quarterly? Create a webcast archive of council meetings? Mandatory inclusionary zoning? Maintain the number of frontline police officers?

Seriously, are you just trying to spew out garbage faster than check it? Because even though it's easier to make stuff up than to show that you're making stuff up, there are more of us than you so you're going to lose.

[jjgallow]

Originally Posted by SebC

I know. 3.6% of eligible voters cast advance polls. Let's say 36% election turnout: 10% of voters have already cast their ballots. Amongst them: election day volunteers (of which Nenshi has many), students (polls at SAIT, MRU, U of C). I'd also guess that the advance polls have a higher share of wasted ballots (Hehr, Hawkesworth, Stewart, etc.) than the regular polls will.

You know what the other (older) polls putting Nenshi shows, when taken in conjunction with the Leger poll? Momentum.

http://www.google.com/trends?q=nahee...2010-10&sort=2

[Neeper]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

http://accountability.nenshi.ca/

Sweet!! I'm on the list

I can't wait until they announce Naheed as out new mayor!!

[jjgallow]

Originally Posted by SebC

Seriously, are you just trying to spew out garbage faster than check it? Because even though it's easier to make stuff up than to show that you're making stuff up, there are more of us than you so you're going to lose.

Regarding the website: She didn't change her website, and Nenshi looked foolish even bringing it up. He wasn't even debating with her, he was just trying to belittle her. How could he debate when his platform was the same? If he really had great new ideas, why didn't he focus on any of them instead of semantics?

Regarding purple...you're even responding in purple! don't tempt me.

On consulting: It costs money, takes a long time, and you still end up with a bias. Just like Bronco heeded to developers, look at Nenshi's donor list..those are all people who want to charge huge consulting fees, and run overpriced social studies.

On safe Cities: Higgins didn't say "Every". Nenshi's platform also includes overuse of the words "All", "Any", "Complete", and "Best". These words do not belong in a platform, especially platform titles. A platform is like a promise, and these words are all impossible to deliver on. They are, ultimately, guaranteed platform lies.

As for substantiation, this is what you should be asking of Nenshi, not me.

As for consolidating business taxes...three words: Harmonized Sales Tax. Secondly, he's using words that indicate he wants to raise those taxes.

As for the rest, now you're getting into his platform, which is really Ric's platform for the most part. It's okay but not great.