2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[PepsiFree]

Giving up Monahan and Gaudreau for Eichel is madness. Adding a 1st just to get an average player added is even worse.

Eichel is very very good. But if we're trading Gaudreau and Monahan, both highly valuable in their own right, I expect Buffalo to add Olofsson on their end. And I don't see that happening.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Yikes. Sorry but that is Buffalo taking us to the cleaners right there IMO.

Gaudreau
Monahan
2021 1st

For

Eichel
Montour


I'd do that. Call me crazy.

[Roof-Daddy]

Gaudreau and Monahan have combined for about 700 points the last 5 seasons, Eichel has scored 340 points.

Eichel is awesome, but that is a gross overpay.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Giving up Monahan and Gaudreau for Eichel is madness. Adding a 1st just to get an average player added is even worse.

Eichel is very very good. But if we're trading Gaudreau and Monahan, both highly valuable in their own right, I expect Buffalo to add Olofsson on their end. And I don't see that happening.

Eichel is an elite top line C who would probably become this franchise's greatest C in it's history if he can start avoiding injuries. Monahan is a great 2c and gaudreau is a great complimentary star, like kessel was. I say sub Montour in for Miller and call it a day

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Gaudreau and Monahan have combined for about 700 points the last 5 seasons, Eichel has scored 340 points.

Eichel is awesome, but that is a gross overpay.

Different stages of their careers, injuries, team situation. Lots of variables but Buffalo laughs unless we give them two top 6 forwards and a pick. Eichel is an elite 1C, probably will be considered a top 5 C in hockey very soon. Look at MacKinnon's development path, Eichel's is close to that imo

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Eichel is an elite top line C who would probably become this franchise's greatest C in it's history if he can start avoiding injuries. Monahan is a great 2c and gaudreau is a great complimentary star, like kessel was. I say sub Montour in for Miller and call it a day

Here is the disconnect in bold:

Monahan has scored the 7th most goals of all Cs in the entire NHL over the last 5 seasons, but somehow he's just a good 2C.

Then someone says "well he's just riding Gaudreau's coat tails", but that can't be right because Gaudreau is "just a complimentary star".

I'm just gonna go ahead and say that maybe they're both being undervalued here.

[dammage79]

No way. No way in hades would I ever do that trade. I hate the idea of condensing your forward depth into less. What has it exactly done for Buffalo I ask. Nothing. Except piss Eichel off. No sir don't like it. Not. One. Bit.

I'm all for moving Gaudreau to get another Center. All for it. But the idea should be to add to Monahan and Backlund, not take one away and have one replace Monahan.

I get Eichel is a better player than Monahan but not so good you add Gaudreau. Man alive we really undervalue our players here. Then you add a 1st!? You trying to give readers an aneurysm or a stroke? Yikes.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Gaudreau
Monahan
2021 1st

For

Eichel
Montour


I'd do that. Call me crazy.

out of your mind fruit loops insane. I'm calling the crazy farm to come get you.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Eichel is an elite top line C who would probably become this franchise's greatest C in it's history if he can start avoiding injuries. Monahan is a great 2c and gaudreau is a great complimentary star, like kessel was. I say sub Montour in for Miller and call it a day

You are describing Eichel here at what you expect his peak to be, while at the same time, you are describing Monahan and Gaudreau in the basest way possible.

Try to be objective, and use the same standards on both sides (each player's peak, or 5-yr average, or their minimum base value, or whatever)

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Here is the disconnect in bold:



Monahan has scored the 7th most goals of all Cs in the entire NHL over the last 5 seasons, but somehow he's just a good 2C.



Then someone says "well he's just riding Gaudreau's coat tails", but that can't be right because Gaudreau is "just a complimentary star".



I'm just gonna go ahead and say that maybe they're both being undervalued here.

I see Mony as a 1 way 30 goal, 60 point C. He's good at producing offense but does little else. Eichel can take over games in so many ways. Monahan is not that dynamic. I like Mony's counting stats but let's be honest, for a 1C, his 2way game isnt even passable. He doesn't own the ice the way other top C's do. He and Gaudreau have insane chemistry, a symbiotic relationship if you will. I firmly believe Mony would be a 25g 50p player on most teams, he just finds himself in an incredible situation here for piling up points.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

You are describing Eichel here at what you expect his peak to be, while at the same time, you are describing Monahan and Gaudreau in the basest way possible.



Try to be objective, and use the same standards on both sides (each player's peak, or 5-yr average, or their minimum base value, or whatever)

They are difficult to compare. The 5 year sample size goes back to Eichel's rookie year. He plays on Edmonton East. He projects as an elite, top line C. Monahan is not that. Comparing Gaudreau to Kessel is not an insult.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Gaudreau and Monahan have combined for about 700 points the last 5 seasons, Eichel has scored 340 points.

Eichel is awesome, but that is a gross overpay.

It's not cut and dry like that though, as it actually becomes what you think Eichel+Hall could produce for the flames in the next 5 years.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Giving up Monahan and Gaudreau for Eichel is madness.

You may be right, but I doubt that Buffalo does that deal either.

The cost of obtaining a player under control who is likely to be an elite #1 center would be exceptionally high.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

I see Mony as a 1 way 30 goal, 60 point C. He's good at producing offense but does little else. Eichel can take over games I so many ways. Monahan is not that dynamic. I like Mony's counting stats but let's be honest, for a 1C, his 2way game isnt even passable. He doesn't own the ice the way other top C's do. He and Gaudreau have insane chemistry, a symbiotic relationship if you will. I firmly believe Mony would be a 25g 50p player on most teams, he just finds himself in an incredible situation here for piling up points.

I wish I could swear right now because this is utter BS.
No one, Literally no one has been more clutch than Sean Monahan during his tenure. Little else....WTF else does he have to do!? He wins games. 40 GWG. Eichel 24 GWG in two less seasons. Yes, Eichel is better. And I still wouldn't trade Monny for him.

Whatever. I've obviously taken the bait here as I've allowed my self.to get worked up over your take on Monahan.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

It's not cut and dry like that though, as it actually becomes what you think Eichel+Hall could produce for the flames in the next 5 years.

Signing Hall should never enter the conversation when considering the trade for Eichel. Just because you (think you) are going to sign Hall, doesn't mean you should get bent over in the trade for Eichel.

[Monahammer]

If you believe that top-15 NHL Centres are impossible to acquire outside of the draft, and that a true #1C is vital to cup success, then I think this is the type of trade we would have to make.

I personally think that Monahan could get it done and he has the chops but I know theres a significant portion of the fan base that thinks we need that upgrade. To upgrade on Monahan is going to be very expensive.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Eichel is an elite top line C who would probably become this franchise's greatest C in it's history if he can start avoiding injuries. Monahan is a great 2c and gaudreau is a great complimentary star, like kessel was. I say sub Montour in for Miller and call it a day

Wrong. Gaudreau is an elite LW. Over the past 5 years and of the LW playing, he's 4th in points, 3rd in P/G, 3rd in EVP/G. He's the only LW in the same conversation as Marchand, Panarin, and Ovechkin over that period, nobody else is remotely close. Monahan, on the other end, is a good 1c (and if you wanted to call him a 2c, he would be "elite").

Montour is good, but given the expansion draft, we'd likely lose him or a better defenceman.

Is Eichel elite? Nothing has shown that he's there yet but sure, things point in that direction. McDavid is elite, MacKinnon is elite. Crosby is elite. Are Barkov or Schiefele elite? Eichel is a step below them, maybe just barely.

If Eichel is an elite center, Gaudreau is certainly an elite winger. There's no debate.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I wish I could swear right now because this is utter BS.

No one, Literally no one has been more clutch than Sean Monahan during his tenure. Little else....WTF else does he have to do!? He wins games. 40 GWG. Eichel 24 GWG in two less seasons. Yes, Eichel is better. And I still wouldn't trade Monny for him.



Whatever. I've obviously taken the bait here as I've allowed my self.to get worked up over your take on Monahan.

Jesus man. No bait. Calm the f down. I said I liked Mony. He is clutch, sorry I forgot to mention. He's also played on better teams than Eichel, thus more chances to be clutch.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Wrong. Gaudreau is an elite LW. Over the past 5 years and of the LW playing, he's 4th in points, 3rd in P/G, 3rd in EVP/G. He's the only LW in the same conversation as Marchand, Panarin, and Ovechkin over that period, nobody else is remotely close. Monahan, on the other end, is a good 1c (and if you wanted to call him a 2c, he would be "elite").



Montour is good, but given the expansion draft, we'd likely lose him or a better defenceman.



Is Eichel elite? Nothing has shown that he's there yet but sure, things point in that direction. McDavid is elite, MacKinnon is elite. Crosby is elite. Are Barkov or Schiefele elite? Eichel is a step below them, maybe just barely.



If Eichel is an elite center, Gaudreau is certainly an elite winger. There's no debate.

Elite C >>> Elite LW

You need an elite C to win, you dont need an elite LW

[Bonded]

Depends on how good you think Eichel is. Does he carry a better team deep or is he not that good. I have not watched much of him but does he replace the hole left by losing Monahan + Gaudreau + 1st?