Arena negotiation discussion. UPD: Flames release their proposal

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by robaur

- Adding ticket tax on top / raising ticket prices creates two different reactions from buyers. A buyer is more likely to accept a ticket tax than to accept a ticket price increase.

Well the great news is we'll get to accept both!!

[nik-]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Well the great news is we'll get to accept both!!

and the ticket tax will be a joke compared to the price increase

[Redlan]

It is quite astonishing how polarizing some of the opinions are, not just here but across other mediums as well. I think it's pretty funny how this is all part of negotiations but there are those who just live in each moment. It's like this, and I would guess most of the rest of their life, is one big soap opera.


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[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by ah123

The more I think about this, the more I think that CalgaryNext is the end goal for the Flames, and the way they are going to get is by getting replacing Nenshi (and some alderman) with Bill Smith and alderman who are more sympathetic to their needs.

I don't really think the arena is the issue, it is the development opportunity that they want (i.e. West Village)

The public knows this now, who would vote for Smith and CalgaryNext?

[longsuffering]

I have a new proposal.

Once the NHL gifts the Flames a generational talent, the City will open it's coffers. We don't even need 3 or 4 failed first overall picks!

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

The public knows this now, who would vote for Smith and CalgaryNext?

I was planning on voting against Nenshi this election but the Flames and their chicanery are making me not want to anymore. So this little stunt is actually backfiring, at least with me.

[calgaryblood]

Yeah the Flames probably didn't see this coming. Tried to alter the election and it has backfired big time.

The people I've talked to who weren't going to vote for Nenshi have now been won over for the job he's done on the arena and not backing down and giving in.

[jammies]

You can use the same style of argument that the ticket tax is 100% CSEC revenue to instead argue it's partially paid by the players. If the Flames charge $100 + $10 ticket tax for a game ticket, the players get 50%, or $50 of that money. If the Flames charged $110 straight up, the players would instead get $55. Since that extra $5 is redirected to pay the capital expense of the arena for CSEC by making it a "tax", you're clearly taking that money from the players!

The city is fronting the money to save CSEC some interest expenses? Oh, now the banks are making less money than they theoretically could, so now the banks are paying part of the cost! That's how it works, right, if you make less money on a transaction than the theoretical maximum, it is a cost? A guy in a Broncos jacket scalps a ticket for $200 that he bought for $110 - he just cost the Flames the $90 they could have made in the imaginary universe where they magically can tailor the price of each ticket to extract maximum profit!

There's really only one person who pays 100% of the ticket tax - the poor schmuck who buys the ticket. While there is obviously some truth that the ticket tax depresses the price of the ticket, it is not at a 1:1 ratio because of 2 things: #1, since it isn't HRR, there's double efficiency as revenue (for hockey game tickets, anyway) in paying off the loan, and #2, ticket prices aren't maximized entirely for profit, but also to fill building capacity for aesthetics and atmosphere.

PS: Not to mention that a $100 Saddledome ticket will probably cost $130 or more at the Nenshidome; you'll be setting a new floor for ticket prices which is partially decoupled from past expectations, so there'll be space to gouge AND tax your buyer without the latter much affecting the former.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by ah123

The more I think about this, the more I think that CalgaryNext is the end goal for the Flames, and the way they are going to get is by getting replacing Nenshi (and some alderman) with Bill Smith and alderman who are more sympathetic to their needs.

I don't really think the arena is the issue, it is the development opportunity that they want (i.e. West Village)

Especially since King blurted out that that CSEC is potentially partnering with a developer for an office tower in the area.

This a real estate play.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by nik-

and the ticket tax will be a joke compared to the price increase

To be honest, I often times question the value of hockey prices as they sit today, never mind with an increase and tax. With a new arena, the fluff around it might change, but the hockey product itself will probably be the same as it is now... and I'm not really looking forward to paying 50% more for that...and probably won't.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Especially since King blurted out that that CSEC is potentially partnering with a developer for an office tower in the area.

This a real estate play.

No, really? This is new information!

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Especially since King blurted out that that CSEC is potentially partnering with a developer for an office tower in the area.

This a real estate play.

The Flames could barely run a sports pub and now they want to become developers. They should probably stick to their lane.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by New Era

No, really? This is new information!

It probably is for many casually following this story. No need to be nutty.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by New Era

No, really? This is new information!

It's funny that everyone just takes this as a given because when he revealed the CalgaryNext idea, King was adamant that the CSEC had no interest in actually being involved in any of the development in the West Village. They just wanted CalgaryNext to be the catalyst for all this great development in the area.

[stamps]

I don't like the Mayor's tone to tell the truth ...during his Flames arena news conference he referenced our city's and region(Calgary/Canmore) Olympic bid and Edmonton's new arena that was built with terms that are a lot more friendly towards the Oilers than the one he is steadfastly imposing on our team is really grinding my gears ... it is almost like he is doing more of a benefit for the city of Edmonton than he is doing for his own city ... is our Mayor really doing a service and benefit to Calgary by basically telling the Flames to take our deal or hit the road , I have bigger fish to fry with my Olympic bid and bringing the hockey games to Edmonton , with an Olympic bid study paid for with Calgary city taxes ???

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by nik-

The Flames could barely run a sports pub and now they want to become developers. They should probably stick to their lane.

You mean the "We'll be a Flames bar but we'll openly speak about how we don't want any casually dressed, boisterous fans of the team present, and will instead attempt to cater to the upscale business crowd who has no interest in going to something branded as a sports bar" business model didn't quite work out after all?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by jayswin

You mean the "We'll be a Flames bar but we'll openly speak about how we don't want any casually dressed, boisterous fans of the team present, and will instead attempt to cater to the upscale business crowd who has no interest in going to something branded as a sports bar" business model didn't quite work out after all?

that's the one

[Tiger]

Originally Posted by Robo

How out of touch is the csec if they truly thought they could swing an election in their favor by saying that crap. They obviously don't think much of the average calgarian, very happy with the response they have recieved and I'm sure that changed their tune.

my theory is nenshi is too smart and set this in motion to kick off his election. he created the distraction he needed

[Par]

Originally Posted by Tiger

my theory is nenshi is too smart and set this in motion to kick off his election. he created the distraction he needed

Let's just pray that Nenshi loses the elections, if he wins this city becomes like the bad side of Chicago.

[robaur]

Nenshi is a Harvard graduate. The Flames keep underestimating him.