Once again Israel shows it doesn't screw around

[Arya Stark]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Well that's not likely to be a positive thing since the Military's that stand up to Israel would likely be Middle Eastern, like Iran etc wouldn't just impose a two state solution, they would fight a war of extermination.

You really don't have a firm grasp on why Israel reacts the way that it does.

I'm not sure you have a grasp onto what I said. A proper military who would impose a 2 state solution. If Iran isn't that country how is it relevant to what I hope for?

[CaptainCrunch]

Tell me what Military that would go in to fight Israel would impose a two state solution?

In that region, there are none.

I have a full gasp of what your saying, trust me when I say that.

[Arya Stark]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Tell me what Military that would go in to fight Israel would impose a two state solution?

In that region, there are none.

I have a full gasp of what your saying, trust me when I say that.

I don't think you do. When I said "I hope I'm alive" I think it was clear I don't think it will happen any time soon.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

Shameful. I am not a muslim but Israel's actions disgust me to the core. I hope I am alive to see the day where a proper military stands up against Israel and wins a war against them and makes a proper 2 state solution, by force, and Israel is so crippled it is never looked at as a top military power in the world again. Peace might finally come to the middle East if that happens.

As I have repeated multiple time, those that support Hamas are those that are perpetuating the violence.

Get rid of Hamas and bring in a peaceful government, perhaps we can then talk about steps to get to a two state solution.

The Palestinians have ZERO friends in the region, their best chance at success is Israel.

[WCW Nitro]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Get rid of Hamas and bring in a peaceful government, perhaps we can then talk about steps to get to a two state solution.

Like the government in the West Bank who doesn't fire rockets and accepts a 2 state solution and gets rewarded with illegal settlements?

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

As I have repeated multiple time, those that support Hamas are those that are perpetuating the violence.

Get rid of Hamas and bring in a peaceful government, perhaps we can then talk about steps to get to a two state solution.

The Palestinians have ZERO friends in the region, their best chance at success is Israel.

Right, because Oslo worked out so well for them.

[WCW Nitro]

"El Salvador has joined four Latin American countries in recalling its Israel ambassador from Tel Aviv in protest at the military's ground and air offensive in the Gaza Strip.

Brazil, Chile, Ecuador and Peru have all recalled their diplomatic representatives to Israel."

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/gaza-crisis...-envoy-1459045

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by WCW Nitro

Like the government in the West Bank who doesn't fire rockets and accepts a 2 state solution and gets rewarded with illegal settlements?

You're right, clearly the government in Gaza is doing much better. The settlements definitely justify the war brought about in the region.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

All government sources are full of it. For me, anything the US says militarily, I discount as propaganda until there is independent verification. I have the same default stance for Israel's government claims, and ditto for any ruling party in Gaza / West Bank. This is why I have to chuckle when people cite government or military statements as proof.

Taken in that light, much of the claims in these wars have similar patterns. The intelligence behind the action is always "justified" and the action itself is always "surgical." The reality is usually far from both, and it is debatable whether collateral damage really and truly enters the calculation. We know that with US actions in the Middle East and Afghanistan, collateral damage has not been a hindrance.

Well I certainly see your point, especially given what has actually happened in Iraq the past 10 years. The US does screw up a lot and tries to 'easily' blame it on bad intelligence.

That being said, war is hell....and that will never change.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Fozzie_DeBear

The Iron Dome isn't the military kit that is killing anyone...it's all defence

Doesn't matter. People use it and say Israel should stop whining about rocket attacks since they shoot down most that are headed for civilian areas.

IMO, without Iron Dome, things would be a lot worse. Israel would have basically unleashed a lot worse hell in Gaza to get rid of the attacks.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

2) The Arab states such as Jordan and Egypt put the squeeze on Hamas and troops on the ground - realistically other Arab States don't really care about the Palestinian question, they were a great public relations sop for a long time "Look at the evil Zionists killing these people". But Hamas is firmly in Iran's sphere now and Egypt has tried to put the clamp on weapons smuggling into the strip. If they can broker a cease fire without cost they'll do that. But if it comes to boots on the ground, it won't happen.

How likely is this to happen considering Egypt supports Israel in its blockade of Gaza?

Also something many here conveniently ignore over and over again.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

Shameful. I am not a muslim but Israel's actions disgust me to the core. I hope I am alive to see the day where a proper military stands up against Israel and wins a war against them and makes a proper 2 state solution, by force, and Israel is so crippled it is never looked at as a top military power in the world again. Peace might finally come to the middle East if that happens.

Its amazing how much of a hypocrite you are.

You have a problem with Israeli aggression, and hope that because of their aggression, someone stands up and does to them exactly what you have a problem with.

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by Azure

Its amazing how much of a hypocrite you are.



You have a problem with Israeli aggression, and hope that because of their aggression, someone stands up and does to them exactly what you have a problem with.

Taking shots at each other is only going to get this thread locked according to the Moderator.

Can't we discuss this without stuff like that? Let's discuss ideas, news, and articles, not each other.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by J epworth kendal

Isn't that what really matters when talking about hate speech anyways, the group it effects?

Not at all. What really matters is an objective standard - because without it, we don't have fair application of the law.

You can't allow "that's hate speech because it's about me and I don't like it" to be sufficient justification without effectively eliminating free speech entirely.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Azure

How likely is this to happen considering Egypt supports Israel in its blockade of Gaza?

Also something many here conveniently ignore over and over again.

What do Egypt and Jordan have to do with this?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by _Q_

What do Egypt and Jordan have to do with this?

The reply was in response too the influences the surrounding countries have on the conflict.

It is interesting that Egypt, a country that attacked Israel in 1967, has now made peace with Israel and even supports them in the blockade of Gaza, something that a lot of people feel is a major reason for Hamas being an aggressor.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

As I have repeated multiple time, those that support Hamas are those that are perpetuating the violence.

Get rid of Hamas and bring in a peaceful government, perhaps we can then talk about steps to get to a two state solution.

The Palestinians have ZERO friends in the region, their best chance at success is Israel.

Doesn't matter how many times you repeat it if its false. Hamas are perpetuating some of the violence. Israel can't just keep pulling the trigger and be seen as victims here. How anyone can simply absolve them of any wrongdoing is beyond me.

[J epworth]

Originally Posted by SebC

Not at all. What really matters is an objective standard - because without it, we don't have fair application of the law.

You can't allow "that's hate speech because it's about me and I don't like it" to be sufficient justification without effectively eliminating free speech entirely.

Don't want to get in a big philosophical discussion about this, but in Canada we are a liberal democracy, and with our liberal values that includes freedom to live your life as you see fit, as long as it doesn't infringe on freedoms of others. When speech or propaganda targets a certain group and makes that group feel oppressed, the speech is infringing on the freedoms of the group.

[J epworth]

Originally Posted by _Q_

What do Egypt and Jordan have to do with this?

A lot. Here's a good article about how this is a pan-Arab issue, not just a Israel-Gaza issue:

http://nyti.ms/1uBDlvE

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Azure

The reply was in response too the influences the surrounding countries have on the conflict.

It is interesting that Egypt, a country that attacked Israel in 1967, has now made peace with Israel and even supports them in the blockade of Gaza, something that a lot of people feel is a major reason for Hamas being an aggressor.

Yeah you're absolutely right.

But I think a major reason why Egypt blockades Gaza is because of that peace treaty. In essence, allowing that border to open would be a declaration of war in Israel and nullification of the Peace treaty. Make no mistake about it though, Gazans and Hamas aren't big fans of that situation.