Stabbing in Brentwood-5 Dead, 1 Arrested

[Raekwon]

Victims father discusses ruling

http://www.calgarysun.com/videos/4911610172001

[T@T]

In my travels yesterday I made it a point to ask people (more than a few brought it up to me) about the verdict, funny that out of the 20+ people discussing it only 2 actually agreed with the judge, over half don't believe the kid at all, most could care less about the mental health and just want justice for the victims and a few even said it was set up because de Groods dad was a cop. In other words a large majority want justice for the 5 murders. Try it yourself today, ask people you run into what they thought of the verdict and wait for the answer before you give them your opinion.

Before anyone asks "what type of people?".. over half were professionals including a doctor, 2 nurses, a golf pro and an oil company pres.

It's so amazing the difference between members of this forum and "joe" public on subjects like this. Not all but I believe some in here try the "political correct" game a little too much and are afraid to speak their minds.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by T@T

In my travels yesterday I made it a point to ask people (more than a few brought it up to me) about the verdict, funny that out of the 20+ people discussing it only 2 actually agreed with the judge, over half don't believe the kid at all, most could care less about the mental health and just want justice for the victims and a few even said it was set up because de Groods dad was a cop. In other words a large majority want justice for the 5 murders. Try it yourself today, ask people you run into what they thought of the verdict and wait for the answer before you give them your opinion.

Before anyone asks "what type of people?".. over half were professionals including a doctor, 2 nurses, a golf pro and an oil company pres.

It's so amazing the difference between members of this forum and "joe" public on subjects like this. Not all but I believe some in here try the "political correct" game a little too much and are afraid to speak their minds.

So 10 out of 20 people you talked to believe that he is faking mental illness and planned to murder these 5 kids? So either this kid is the best actor in the world to fool multiple experts or this is all some cover up because his dad is a cop and they let him off "easy"?

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

So 10 out of 20 people you talked to believe that he is faking mental illness and planned to murder these 5 kids? So either this kid is the best actor in the world to fool multiple experts or this is all some cover up because his dad is a cop and they let him off "easy"?

Hard to believe isn't it? then again so is killing werewolf's and vampires for Jesus.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by T@T

In other words a large majority want justice for the 5 murders.

In other other words the people you talked to have literally no idea what they are talking about. To think that he's taking his mental health condition is just way beyond stupid. Why do people keep asking average Joes about this? Maybe you should go back and ask them what schizophrenia is? Seriously. I'd be very interested in their answers.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

So 10 out of 20 people you talked to believe that he is faking mental illness and planned to murder these 5 kids? So either this kid is the best actor in the world to fool multiple experts or this is all some cover up because his dad is a cop and they let him off "easy"?

In fairness, and I am not suggesting he is faking it.... but was he not a Psychology Graduate? If there was ever someone that could pull it off, he certainly would have the right credentials and a better chance than most of the population to get away with it, and know what the system would look for to dodge a conviction.

I personally feel it falls just outside the realm of tin foil, but it is still a possibility. He did seem to spiral extremely quickly. There is the remote possibility the kid is just pure evil.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by T@T

Hard to believe isn't it? then again so is killing werewolf's and vampires for Jesus.

Not sure if you are being silly or not, but being mentally ill is slightly different than thinking he is faking it or it's a cover up. I'll just assume you are being silly.

I understand people being upset and wanting the kid to spend his life in jail or mental facility. I can't really follow the logic behind him faking or it being a cover up.

[EldrickOnIce]

People are angry.
I think that is a reasonable emotional reaction - even though that anger generates over the top outbursts. It's therapeutic to vent.
I don't think ridiculing and chastising them, in response, will help to promote any understanding on this issue.

[Wiggum_PI]

Originally Posted by T@T

In my travels yesterday I made it a point to ask people (more than a few brought it up to me) about the verdict, funny that out of the 20+ people discussing it only 2 actually agreed with the judge, over half don't believe the kid at all, most could care less about the mental health and just want justice for the victims and a few even said it was set up because de Groods dad was a cop. In other words a large majority want justice for the 5 murders. Try it yourself today, ask people you run into what they thought of the verdict and wait for the answer before you give them your opinion.

Before anyone asks "what type of people?".. over half were professionals including a doctor, 2 nurses, a golf pro and an oil company pres.

It's so amazing the difference between members of this forum and "joe" public on subjects like this. Not all but I believe some in here try the "political correct" game a little too much and are afraid to speak their minds.

I wonder how the trial would have gone if it was decided by a jury, instead of a judge.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by pylon

They may be willing to help them clinically, but not every single one believes they deserve the freedom some of you seem to assume they should have.

We're not assuming. It's the law, it's our justice system. And thankfully it is. He does deserve freedom once (if) he's ready for it.

Originally Posted by pylon

And the lack of empathy for these families on this board also sickens me as well.

Believing that De Grood was mentally ill, or at least believing that there wasn't enough evidence to suggest he wasn't (i.e. three experts and the crown prosecutor saying he was...) does not preclude us from feeling for the families. If De Grood was mentally ill, and seeing as there's absolutely no evidence to suggest he wasn't, then we can also feel bad for him, and his family, as well. What an absolute terrible argument and I would have expected better from you Pylon.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

In other other words the people you talked to have literally no idea what they are talking about. To think that he's taking his mental health condition is just way beyond stupid. Why do people keep asking average Joes about this? Maybe you should go back and ask them what schizophrenia is? Seriously. I'd be very interested in their answers.

Fairly certain most have at least a clue about schizophrenia and most realize 99.9% of people who suffer from it wouldn't slaughter 5 school mates either.

Story's of him being somewhat a social misfit, his acting normal at work just a couple of hours earlier, his psychology background and even his relationship with his dad have people suspicious.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by pylon

In fairness, and I am not suggesting he is faking it.... but was he not a Psychology Graduate? If there was ever someone that could pull it off, he certainly would have the right credentials and a better chance than most of the population to get away with it, and know what the system would look for to dodge a conviction.

Pull what off exactly Pylon? He's not walking out the doors of the courthouse as a free man in any sense. What he's going to endure for the, very likely, next decade would be no less terrible than prison. Imagine living your prime years in a hospital where everyone around you is crazy or thinks you are (on top of "many" thinking you are evil incarnate). Imagine being so doped up on medicines with such horrible side-effects that those that actually do need them occasionally don't take them. We''re not talking about a walk in the park here. For a mentally stable person, this is closer to hell on earth.

And his reward? Once he's released he's an outcast that many feel is no better than Jeffrey Dahmer.

He's a psychology graduate, so he knows enough that this was probably the last thing he wants to endure. If you want to chase the tinfoil theories and assume he is a pure evil genius, getting caught like this doesn't really add up. If he wanted infamy it does, but then you should expect more of a James Eagan Holmes reaction throughout, not the remorseful apology letter.

Not to mention there's also evidence, and non to the contrary, that he charged at a cop with his pistol drawn. He wanted to be killed at the time (not quite suicide by cop as he thought he would come back as the Son of God). And this was after he brushed off an attack from a police dog.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by T@T

Fairly certain most have at least a clue about schizophrenia and most realize 99.9% of people who suffer from it wouldn't slaughter 5 school mates either.

Story's of him being somewhat a social misfit, his acting normal at work just a couple of hours earlier, his psychology background and even his relationship with his dad have people suspicious.

Go ahead. Define schizophrenia. No googling.

If you ask twenty people about Gord Downie would it even be remotely possible that ten would say he's faking it to sell more tickets? Not in any universe would that happen because there is a doctor front and center explaining exactly what reality is.

We have the same thing here....three doctors telling you straight to your face he's not faking it. Yet here we are.

[Ne7en]

Originally Posted by T@T

Not all but I believe some in here try the "political correct" game a little too much and are afraid to speak their minds.

I agree with this sentiment.

Seems everything is becoming acceptable these days. Yes, mental illness is a serious condition, however rehabilitating a murderer should take a backseat to the victims families. Every 1-3 years they will have to relive this and if he gets released back into society, the families will never get closure.

[Frank MetaMusil]

I almost feel like "mental illness" cuts too wide of a swath for DeGrood. He completely lost his ####.

Insanity/psychosis seems more apt. It's not like we are talking about depression or an anxiety disorder.

[AltaGuy]

I think if one were actually an evil genius, from what I remember of law school, the automatism defence is far preferable to being hospitalized. De grood's life is going to be a terrible one from now on.

I know a family who has gone through something like these families: they would say that longterm revenge or "justice" does not heal or provide closure, but only acceptance and love will. Took them a few years to find it, but they did. I definitely feel awful for the families in this case, even though I believe this was almost unquestionably the correct verdict.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by Wiggum_PI

I wonder how the trial would have gone if it was decided by a jury, instead of a judge.

If I was charged with a crime, I would NEVER choose a jury trial. The general public is stupid, easily manipulated and do not understand the nuance of law. The judge would be the only way I could guarantee myself that a professional with years of experience would decide my fate.

In this case, I'm disappointed with the ruling, but I trust that the judge made the right decision.

[Russic]

Originally Posted by pylon

In fairness, and I am not suggesting he is faking it.... but was he not a Psychology Graduate? If there was ever someone that could pull it off, he certainly would have the right credentials and a better chance than most of the population to get away with it, and know what the system would look for to dodge a conviction.

I personally feel it falls just outside the realm of tin foil, but it is still a possibility. He did seem to spiral extremely quickly. There is the remote possibility the kid is just pure evil.

I have a psychology degree. One of the greatest misconceptions is that when you get one you're suddenly half magic. These experts would have mountains of experience beyond what De Grood could have gotten out of a textbook.

I think it's tempting to label him as pure evil because it explains behaviour that may be inexplicable. As I mentioned way back in the beginning of the thread, a close friend of mine knows him directly and referred to him as "the nicest kid". I just don't believe it's reasonable that somebody can put on a show that well, kill 5 people, basically ignore an attack from a police dog, then trick a team of people who have dedicated their lives to studying psychosis.

As for T@T and his findings, not a bit of me is surprised. My Facebook is full of nurses who think behaviour is controlled by moon phases or the zodiac. Somebody's profession is not necessarily an indicator of their wisdom. Understanding these scenarios (and mental illness in general) is a relatively new thing for us. It wasn't long ago that we were jamming rods into heads to "fix" people. It's not at all shocking that people don't agree, believe, or understand what's going on. And that's why these decisions are left to people that spend their lives trying to understand the problem.

[Coach]

I'm curious about what people the people who are claiming a "lack of empathy for the families", or want to see "justice" for the families want to see from the people discussing the issues around the case? Should every post just be "RIP those kids!!"? What do you think would give them justice or closure? Would locking de Groode up and throwing away the key without any effort to rehabilitate him really make them feel better about losing their child?

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by Ne7en

I agree with this sentiment.

Seems everything is becoming acceptable these days. Yes, mental illness is a serious condition, however rehabilitating a murderer should take a backseat to the victims families. Every 1-3 years they will have to relive this and if he gets released back into society, the families will never get closure.

Not since the days of the E=NG thread has a circle jerk been this strong in a thread. Disagree with the NCR crowd and suddenly you're right in the middle of it.

My position is if you kill someone (5 people no less), mental illness does not excuse your actions. While DeGrood might not have been ''himself'', someone slaughtered 5 people. Who was it? DeGrood. But god forbid you disagree with the notion of keeping him away from the rest of society even if he's on his meds. Medication we are trusting him to take by himself at some point.

IMO justice for the family should be the absolute #1 priority in cases like this. The rehabilitation of the perpetrator should be down the list. But god forbid I say something like that because now the NCR crowd will be all over me because suddenly I'm not sympathetic towards the thousands of people with schizophrenia or mental illness.

Then we're told ''but that's our justice system and thank god it works that way''. Well guess what, many Canadians disagree with it and don't think it's good enough.