The Drive for 30th

[Bar-Down]

Pretty choked that our draft position is getting worse.

But since we are in the 6 pick range I hope we get Monahan, I would be perfectly fine with that. Big Canadian centre, something we desperately need.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I think a lot of younger fans don't understand that what is happening is the 90's all over again. This is a bad team that's not helping itself get better by winning meaningless games at garbage time. I'm not saying tanking is right but the Lightning, Hurricanes, Avalanche and Predator organizations know very well what they are doing and that's failing today to win tomorrow. Flames are winning today to fail tomorrow.

Hopefully what ends up being the difference between now and the young guns era, is instead of drafting Fata, we draft Tanguay and instead of drafting Tkaczuk , we draft Hossa.

The problem back then wasn't our draft position, it was who we drafted.

[Bar-Down]

When is the draft lottery? Don't they do it shortly after the end of the regular season?

EDIT: NVM, its April 29th. So fairly soon.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Hopefully what ends up being the difference between now and the young guns era, is instead of drafting Fata, we draft Tanguay and instead of drafting Tkaczuk , we draft Hossa.

The problem back then wasn't our draft position, it was who we drafted.

The problem was both. If w draft top 3 of either of those drafts we get a much better player and you have to go back 6 spots to get Tanguay in the Fata draft and the guys in the 5 spots after Tzaczuk were very hit and miss.

Samsanov was a realistic possibility for Tzaczuk but I don't think that switch changes a whole lot for the Flames fortunes over that time.

[sun]

Originally Posted by mac_82

We can only hope by being one of the few teams still trying to play with some heart and effort and not throwing in the towel that we will somehow be rewarded by winning the draft lottery.

Devils did it in 2010-11. Started the season at 9-22-2 and went on a 26-7-3 run and a familiar looking 4-5-1 in their last 10.

3.6% chance of winning the lottery and they did. No oiler rule back then, so they picked 4th.

Improbable, but not impossible. And if you believe in such things, we're due for some luck!

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Hopefully what ends up being the difference between now and the young guns era, is instead of drafting Fata, we draft Tanguay and instead of drafting Tkaczuk , we draft Hossa.

The problem back then wasn't our draft position, it was who we drafted.

Truth.

That said a higher pick does give you a higher likelihood of getting a franchise player.

Some people are acting as if this win cost us a chance at a franchise player. It didn't, there will probably be a franchise player left if we take the right player and have some luck with their development.

At least there is some reason to believe our scouting is a lot better than during the Tkaczuk/Fata/Saprykin/Krahn era.

[Frequitude]

The table on the left shows the probabilities of where we'll finish on the season. It's straight off of www.sportsclubstats.com.

The table on the right shows the probabilities of us getting each draft pick. Its based on the sportsclubstats numbers with the lottery rules overlayed.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

So a 56.3% of getting a 4th-6th pick. That's solidly in the Lindholm/Monahan range.

10% chance of having the #1 pick. I'm sure someone will post the obligatory so you're saying there's a chance GIF.

[PlayfulGenius]

still a 40%+ chance of picking Top 4... and 80%+ chance of picking Top 6... its not the end of the world... yet

[3 Justin 3]

If the OOT goes perfectly on Thursday (it won't at all), then this win against Detroit wouldn't be too bad.

This win really puts Nashville out of reach as we need to lose 2 games, then lose against Nashville just to get behind them.

1 win puts Carolina ahead of us due to ROW and a point puts Tampa ahead of us.





Of course none of this will happen and everyone will lose tomorrow and we'll beat Nashville 7-1.

[calgarywinning]

This is a scary debate. I don't believe that a professional team should be engaged in the business of losing for a higher draft pick. A professional team should play to the best of their abilities. It also has a big thing to do with the culture of winning. A culture of losing can set serious mould on an organization. The Flames have always played great in an underdog role.

Also, we can't compete with fate. When Howard gives up those freak goals what would you do? Take a shot at kipper, not make it, eat the puck. Like what are you supposed to do? You have to hold the other team honest.

[Hemi-Cuda]

figures, being able to draft a franchise player is the only thing the Flames have given me hope for over the past 4 years, and now they screw that up too. this franchise is forever terrible

[JurassicTunga12]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

So a 56.3% of getting a 4th-6th pick. That's solidly in the Lindholm/Monahan range.

10% chance of having the #1 pick. I'm sure someone will post the obligatory so you're saying there's a chance GIF.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Imagine if the Red Wings had kept MacDonald instead of Gustafsson. How bad would we have been then having to start Irving for half the season?

We can see now why they weren't willing to give up a 1st rounder for JayBo, clearly they knew how crappy their team was. Terrible depth up front and on the blueline. Shocking to see the Wings this bad and the Flames sweep the season series.

Red Wings sabotaged our draft position with the MacDonald waiving, Howard getting ill and Gustafsson handing us the one game, and then Howard gifting us another.

We really need some luck now to get a high pick. We could use these crap teams finding some wins or a nice draft lottery win.

[3 Justin 3]

I just looked at Tampa's and Carolina's schedules and although both those teams are terrible I think they each have 3/5 winnable games (though 1 of those is against each other).

One of them is guaranteed at least 1 win. Tampa also plays Florida.

We're not out of top 4 yet gentlemen.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by calgarywinning

It also has a big thing to do with the culture of winning. A culture of losing can set serious mould on an organization.

Culture of winning and culture of losing sounds a lot like astrology to me.

Where is Colorado's culture of winning now?

How are Columbus and NYI possibly in playoff positions? They have losing cultures!

Good teams win because they have more good players then bad teams. I don't think its much more complicated then that.

Pretty much anyone that has played hockey their entire lives has played on a bunch of winning and losing teams. If the "culture" was what enabled teams to play well, don't you think managers wouldn't have keyed in on what culture makes succesful teams by now and enacted that in evey dressing room around the league?

If you follow the NHL fairly closely, doesn't it seem pretty clear that nearly every team has much of the same culture anyway?

Rookie dinners, dressing room pranks, hat/belt/coat/etc for player of the game, bag skates, practice fights, breaking season down into "X" game segments, good in the room/glue guys, bars, puck bunnies, rookies living with veterans, kicking ball around pregame warmup, don't put jersey on the ground, don't walk on team logo, etc etc.

You could write 50 articles about team culture, and if you omitted the names and locations, you would never pick out which team is which.

[calgarywinning]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

Culture of winning and culture of losing sounds a lot like astrology to me.

It's not complicated. It is simply instructing a team to lose for a draft pick or helping them within there strengths and weaknesses to win games. Coaching them to do better. Simple.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Truth.

That said a higher pick does give you a higher likelihood of getting a franchise player.

Some people are acting as if this win cost us a chance at a franchise player. It didn't, there will probably be a franchise player left if we take the right player and have some luck with their development.

At least there is some reason to believe our scouting is a lot better than during the Tkaczuk/Fata/Saprykin/Krahn era.

People like to talk about Tkaczuk like he was a bad pick at 6th. He wasn't a reach and was picked whre he was projected to be picked. It just illustrates how much more hit and miss it gets when you draft outside the top 3 in the draft.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by calgarywinning

It also has a big thing to do with the culture of winning. A culture of losing can set serious mould on an organization. The Flames have always played great in an underdog role.

Where has the Flames culture of winning been over the past three years where they wilted in the last month when a playoff spot was in reach? Where was that winning culture earlier in the season when the team still had a chance to make the playoffs and avoid it's franchise player be traded away? With the exception of 2004 this franchise has lost every single playoff series they have played since 1989. If there has ever been a franchise with a losing culture it's the Calgary Flames.

[loob job]

I think our bottom three chances just went out the window with that win last night. I love the flames but i know we need franchise players now and finishing in the bottom four guaranteed our chance at getting one. I was deflated when we won last night. I don't want another five years of mediocrity with no light at the end of the tunnel. Please flames, lose your remaining games for the sake of the franchise.