American Politics 3.0 - Back to Brunch

[Whynotnow]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

I mean, we're talking about it because Jon Stewart came back from a 12 year hiatus to say it. It resonates with a nominal segment of Americans and has spawned discourse. If even a small % of the electorate is turned off by *gestures vaguely at the last 12 months of Biden*, then it's a conversation worth having and not ignoring.

The problem is the longer this conversation goes on it only benefits one person in this race, Donald Trump. The more people aren’t talking about the fact that he’s a completely unsuitable candidate is helpful to him.

Biden isn’t going away, Trump will be the nominee. Everybody should be talking about that choice, not some mythical choice that doesn’t exist for either side. Of course it’s subpar, both parties should be ashamed, but time for the real conversation. I will take bidens supposed diminished capacity every day of the week over the same problem with Trump but sprinkle in being a narcissist surrounded by pure evil.

Jon Stewart can claim the high road and middle ground here but he’s helping one guy with this and I’m sure he has to be aware of that.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Whynotnow

The problem is the longer this conversation goes on it only benefits one person in this race, Donald Trump. The more people aren’t talking about the fact that he’s a completely unsuitable candidate is helpful to him.

Biden isn’t going away, Trump will be the nominee. Everybody should be talking about that choice, not some mythical choice that doesn’t exist for either side. Of course it’s subpar, both parties should be ashamed, but time for the real conversation. I will take bidens supposed diminished capacity every day of the week over the same problem with Trump but sprinkle in being a narcissist surrounded by pure evil.

Jon Stewart can claim the high road and middle ground here but he’s helping one guy with this and I’m sure he has to be aware of that.

He must feel that a Trump win is a foregone conclusion so he's trying to kick the Democrats in the butt.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Whynotnow

The problem is the longer this conversation goes on it only benefits one person in this race, Donald Trump. The more people aren’t talking about the fact that he’s a completely unsuitable candidate is helpful to him.

Biden isn’t going away, Trump will be the nominee. Everybody should be talking about that choice, not some mythical choice that doesn’t exist for either side. Of course it’s subpar, both parties should be ashamed, but time for the real conversation. I will take bidens supposed diminished capacity every day of the week over the same problem with Trump but sprinkle in being a narcissist surrounded by pure evil.

Jon Stewart can claim the high road and middle ground here but he’s helping one guy with this and I’m sure he has to be aware of that.

I disagree. If you talk about it, it gives your platform some more legitimacy to right wing voters and might resonate with any (hopefully?) pragmatism they have remaining and actually encourage them to vote Biden if you can follow up some balanced approach with convincing reasons to do so.

If you only argue one side of the fence, it’s tough to take you seriously.

[activeStick]

How about apologists for Trump? Is there room in the Republican party for them? Like, yourself? You endorsed him...

https://twitter.com/user/status/1758479509941096673

[KelVarnsen]

Who or what is a Mike Pence?

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by KelVarnsen

Who or what is a Mike Pence?

Vice President from '17 to '21

[Azure]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

I really think you're missing my point here.

Were I American, I would vote Biden, because the alternative is much worse.

This however does not make Biden a viable candidate, and in fact he's a real turd. The choice should not be eating a turd vs cutting off my dick however, and all the people saying "just eat the turd, it's better than cutting off your dick" are missing the point that no one wants to eat the turd. Obviously cutting off my dick and bleeding out in a ditch is worse, but I could still get pretty sick eating that turd. Some voters will decide they don't want to eat the turd either and will just stay home, and I think you'll see a far larger segment of voters in this set than last election.

Why can't I just have like, a slice of toast or a bagel?

Don't often agree with you, but this is exactly what I've seen saying.

And in reality there is also just a continual re election of a bunch of terrible candidates across the entire US government.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

That's a failed strategy. Republican voters show up to vote, the Republican have a better ground game. Democrats are too big tent, big gesture politics, they just don't care about their constituents. Young people vote democrat, the democrats then promptly turn around and kick the people who think education should be affordable in the head.

Its not even just that.

There is a HUGE risk of thinking you can go into this election and have it in the bag, when the last time Trump ran you thought you had it in the bag, and you didn't.

There is simply too much at stake to have Biden as your candidate.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

That's a failed strategy. Republican voters show up to vote, the Republican have a better ground game. Democrats are too big tent, big gesture politics, they just don't care about their constituents. Young people vote democrat, the democrats then promptly turn around and kick the people who think education should be affordable in the head.

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

This is entirely my point, but I'm getting told that "far left issues" are a loser for Dems, so young folk should just suck it up and throw their vote to ol' Genocide Joe to keep sending billions to kill brown children because Trump would also kill the brown kids, but probably will also put gays in work camps.

I think stuff like "education should be affordable" is way higher up the priority list of a young voter than what the military does overseas, frankly, and I don't see how affordable education is considered a far-left issue.

But here, here's where young voters' priorities seem to lie: https://circle.tufts.edu/2024-election-youth-poll

Doesn't seem to be much in the way of far-left issues in there, unless we're rebranding everything centre to moderate left as 'far-left' all of a sudden. Seems to me there's things that would play well for young people on either side of the political aisle so long as a party would come out and actually do anything about it.

[MissTeeks]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1758584137772937658

[calumniate]

millions and billions

[photon]

I don't think he's even fronted the $83M+ to appeal the Carroll case and I heard that he was having problems finding a bond company to lend him the $$.. let alone $355M+ to appeal that one.

[calumniate]

Probably no free mercedes for Alina Habba on this one

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by photon

I don't think he's even fronted the $83M+ to appeal the Carroll case and I heard that he was having problems finding a bond company to lend him the $$.. let alone $355M+ to appeal that one.

No one is going to lend him money with a financial monitor overseeing his business financials.

He's going to have to sell some property, and that's likely going to cause him even more issues as the terms for his existing loans will come due and are likely leveraging those real estate assets. He's ####ed, plain and simple. He doesn't have the cash to put into escrow to appeal the Carroll case, and he doesn't have much he can even appeal on because Habba was such a moron and didn't object to any of the evidence.

[Galakanokis]

He also dropped his appeal with the supreme court for his immunity to civil lawsuits stemming from his involvement in Jan 6. Not really sure what all of this means but probably nothing. He just needs to hold out until Nov and then none of it will mater.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by kermitology

No one is going to lend him money with a financial monitor overseeing his business financials.

He's going to have to sell some property, and that's likely going to cause him even more issues as the terms for his existing loans will come due and are likely leveraging those real estate assets. He's ####ed, plain and simple. He doesn't have the cash to put into escrow to appeal the Carroll case, and he doesn't have much he can even appeal on because Habba was such a moron and didn't object to any of the evidence.

I sense the 10 emails a day he sends me begging for cash are about to go up to 20 or 30, I might actually have to block the grifting ####e

[KootenayFlamesFan]

That first sentence is bang on.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1758599704189817052

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

I really think you're missing my point here.

Were I American, I would vote Biden, because the alternative is much worse.

This however does not make Biden a viable candidate, and in fact he's a real turd. The choice should not be eating a turd vs cutting off my dick however, and all the people saying "just eat the turd, it's better than cutting off your dick" are missing the point that no one wants to eat the turd. Obviously cutting off my dick and bleeding out in a ditch is worse, but I could still get pretty sick eating that turd. Some voters will decide they don't want to eat the turd either and will just stay home, and I think you'll see a far larger segment of voters in this set than last election.

Why can't I just have like, a slice of toast or a bagel?

This is a flawed analogy because it assumes you can avoid eating the turd if you stay home. In reality, you eat a turd if Biden wins the election; you're going to eat 10 turds if Trump wins the election. Those are your only choices. You can't escape eating turd, no matter what. The time to run a non-turd candidate was during the primary, however, there were no serious contenders willing to challenge Biden, so he's going to be the candidate.

You can eat one turd willingly to avoid eating the other 9. Or you can have all 10 forced down your throat. Which do you choose?

Reality is, when you live in a country where 40% of the population is on the koo-koo train, and much of the other 60% is on the part-time koo-koo train, you have to set aside your ideal ambitions and do what you can to stand in the way of those seeking to cause most harm. It sucks, but that's the reality of the country you live in. Harm reduction is not fun, it doesn't feel good, but it's necessary if you don't want your country to become a totalitarian hellhole.

TLDR - you can't have a slice of toast or a bagel because the population of the country you live in isn't voting for toasts or bagels. They are voting for turds. Denying this reality does no one any good.

You can’t blame people for not being excited to go out and eat a turd.

I'm not blaming anyone for not being excited about voting Biden. I'm just pointing out that the sensible things to do in this situation are 1) make the case for why voting for Biden is far better than any of the alternatives (voting 3rd party, staying home, or heaven forbid voting Trump), and 2) hold your nose and vote Biden in November.

Blaming voters for bad candidates is foolish, blame the party for not having any candidates that actually make the voter base excited.

Bernie ran twice and lost twice. The reason why progressives aren't breaking through and winning nominations isn't because there's a lack of progressives who want to be president, it's because the electorate isn't voting for progressives.

But you’ll get a worse turd then!

People stayed home or voted 3rd party in 2016, helping Trump win. Did that fix the problem? Did that suddenly cause the democrats to run some super exciting progressive candidate that the electorate rallied around? Nope. We got Biden.

The idea that revolting against the DNC and giving the WH to republicans leads to better candidates in the long run, is honestly bull####. It's an idea that seems to make sense in theory, but never actually plays out that way in real life.

Fine man whatever I’m eating #### either way so you’re not really selling me.

Well if you're going to be that flippant in glossing over the differences between Biden and Trump, it's a sign that you're being deliberately ignorant, and I don't see much point in continuing to talk to you.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

That's a failed strategy. Republican voters show up to vote, the Republican have a better ground game. Democrats are too big tent, big gesture politics, they just don't care about their constituents. Young people vote democrat, the democrats then promptly turn around and kick the people who think education should be affordable in the head.

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

This is entirely my point, but I'm getting told that "far left issues" are a loser for Dems, so young folk should just suck it up and throw their vote to ol' Genocide Joe to keep sending billions to kill brown children because Trump would also kill the brown kids, but probably will also put gays in work camps.

When the two of you are done talking out of your ***es, maybe you can start providing some actual evidence for your claims?

"Kicking in the head"? like wtf? Do you or do you not realize that Manchin and Sinema blocked Biden from doing things he wanted to do?

"Biden in mental decline"... I call bull####. Show me the evidence. Accidently saying Mexico instead of Egypt is not evidence. Neither is a silly TikTok.

What's happining in Gaza is horrific, but do you really think Biden can just halt funding to Isreal? Jewish voters will flock to Trump if he does that, ensuring a Trump victory in November. The IDF was going to do what they wanted to do regardless of who was in the WH. Trump was very pro-Netenyahu during his presidency, never forget that.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

People stayed home or voted 3rd party in 2016, helping Trump win. Did that fix the problem? Did that suddenly cause the democrats to run some super exciting progressive candidate that the electorate rallied around? Nope. We got Biden.

Well if you're going to be that flippant in glossing over the differences between Biden and Trump, it's a sign that you're being deliberately ignorant, and I don't see much point in continuing to talk to you.

Progressives, especially young progressives, were a big reason Biden got elected last time. He bled voters in traditionally strong Democratic categories (i.e. working-class blacks and latinos). I'd argue that unless he's going to do more to appeal to the working-class (which is also what progressives have been arguing for), alienating progressives and driving young voters to apathy is not a great stategy.