Calgary Civic Election: Mayoralty Poll #4 - The Heat is On

[c.t.ner]

Originally Posted by Rathji

Edit: also, why would we want to "vote strategically"? What does that mean? Are you saying that there is a better way to vote instead of voting for the person we want to win?

I find Barb's sudden campaign strategy to suggest that Nenshi is an also ran mind numbingly confusing. I ask this of any one in Calgary, but has this strategy really worked?

I've heard rumors that Robocallers (on behalf of Barb) have been phoning people telling them that a vote for Nenshi is a wasted vote. But with most media indicating a 3 way dead heat, is someone actually falling for this.

If this was four weeks ago, I would say that strategic voting for the ABM crowd would have been really important, but not at this stage, with polls showing the way they are.

[ken0042]

And that's just it- with 3 people in a virtual tie strategic voting is out the window.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by c.t.ner

I find Barb's sudden campaign strategy to suggest that Nenshi is an also ran mind numbingly confusing. I ask this of any one in Calgary, but has this strategy really worked?

I've heard rumors that Robocallers (on behalf of Barb) have been phoning people telling them that a vote for Nenshi is a wasted vote. But with most media indicating a 3 way dead heat, is someone actually falling for this.

If this was four weeks ago, I would say that strategic voting for the ABM crowd would have been really important, but not at this stage, with polls showing the way they are.

Actually, you are right. It was a robocaller for Barb who pointed out the wasted vote if you vote for Nenshi. I don't know why I thought it was the radio.

[jjgallow]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

Interesting... now you're wanting Nenshi to go far, far beyond the accepted standards you were lauding so much before and research and post every single contributer's resume.

Remember this?

I don't see any company names or political parties listed next to any individual's names. But you want Nenshi to do that?
Further - that list is only for contributions > $101. Nenshi went even further than required and released the names of everyone that gave him as little as $5.

It's Nenshi that wants that. It's part of his Platform. Not necessarily a direct link, but a list of property holdings from personal donors.
http://www.nenshi.ca/new/campaign-finance-reform

I think I've been pretty clear that none of the candidates were transparent. I'm just outlining Nenshi since there's a belief that his donations were somehow more transparent than the others.

[jjgallow]

Originally Posted by Rathji

I don't want to shoot you, I think it is funny.

You expect us to believe that in the hour and seven minutes from your previous post (from 7:23 to 8:30) you just browsed through a huge list of names and pulled some out names, researched them and posted a rather impressive list of people with 'questionable ties' to 'questionable organizations' with a whole lot of conjecture thrown in.

Google. And I got at least one of them wrong. Trust me, it was on the fly. But I'm flattered, really.

[c.t.ner]

Originally Posted by jjgallow

It's Nenshi that wants that. It's part of his Platform. Not necessarily a direct link, but a list of property holdings from personal donors.
http://www.nenshi.ca/new/campaign-finance-reform

I think I've been pretty clear that none of the candidates were transparent. I'm just outlining Nenshi since there's a belief that his donations were somehow more transparent than the others.

Now aren't we stretching information and trying to misguide people.

1) The article you quoted is over two years old. It's from his time at the Herald, not an element of his current campaign policy.

His real campaign policy is here: http://www.nenshi.ca/new/wp-content/...-for-Mayor.pdf

And he doesn't mention any thing related to what you have quoted.

2) And from the actual article you linked.

6. There should be a real estate registry highlighting all of a candidate’s holdings.

Unless my eyes are deceiving me, it does suggest a Real Estate Registry ... but for a Candidate's Holdings not donors.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by jjgallow

It's Nenshi that wants that. It's part of his Platform. Not necessarily a direct link, but a list of property holdings from personal donors.
http://www.nenshi.ca/new/campaign-finance-reform

I think I've been pretty clear that none of the candidates were transparent. I'm just outlining Nenshi since there's a belief that his donations were somehow more transparent than the others.

Which point are you referring to? FTFA:

We need six changes, and we need them now:

1. Limits on contributions. The amount is up for debate, but $1,000 or $1,500 per donor is a good start.

2. Limits on spending. Fifty cents per resident is fair and reasonable. It allows for an effective campaign to be run, without getting into a money war.

3. Campaign surpluses given to the city, or donated to charity. Yes, if they are donated, the candidate will get a major tax receipt, but it’s better than allowing them to simply keep the money.

4. Immediate disclosure of donations — within five business days of the donation, they should be posted on the candidate’s website.

5. Donations only in election years. Otherwise, incumbents can have three unfettered years of fundraising, leading to the question of whether donors are supporting a future election or rewarding current performance.

6. There should be a real estate registry highlighting all of a candidate’s holdings.

#6 sounds like the closest fit... I think. Maybe? #6 is about the candidate's holdings, not the donor's...

[Flames0910]

Man this guy is just part of the Hawkesworth team that has been spamming #yycvote for the last week (month?). Obv. with Hawkesworth endorsing Higgins he's going to continue attacking Nenshi. As I posted 3 pages ago, he has never even posted here before today.

I would be surprised if this has caused a single person to jump ship. The guy is clearly throwing crap at the wall and hoping something sticks.

[jjgallow]

Originally Posted by c.t.ner

Now aren't we stretching information and trying to misguide people.

1) The article you quoted is over two years old. It's from his time at the Herald, not an element of his current campaign policy.

....
Unless my eyes are deceiving me, it does suggest a Real Estate Registry ... but for a Candidate's Holdings not donors.

You've got me on point 6, I misread it. I fail to see how posting a direct link from Nenshi's campaign website is misguiding, however.

The point is the same: As per your direct link, Nenshi claims that he will introduce transparency so that "candidates will have to work hard to find support from across the community, not only from a few big developers".

He then goes on to say that "voters currently don't know who is funding candidates".

What I'm saying is that you Still don't really know who is funding Nenshi's campaign, or by how much. His own campaign list leaves one with no way of knowing if he is truly getting more support from individuals, corporations, or other entities. I do not believe he has demonstrated the transparency that he claims separates him from the other candidates.

[Ryan Coke]

So, can anyone recommend a good comparison of the platforms between Nenshi and McIver? Trying to get some research in, have read about 20 pages of this thread, but still don't have a good handle on things.

I am down to those two; I am curious about Nenshi, but am concerned he may be too Liberal for my tastes. Basically I need to see if there is anything compelling about Nenshi, and if not I will be fine with McIver. Just trying to get some good comparisons between the 2, and am getting bogged down in the recent stuff about donor lists.

[HotHotHeat]

JJ, I've gotta give you credit, you've been in here spewing your hate/garbage/misinformation for a good 4 hours now.

Not bad for a guy with 2 posts in 2 years previous.

One question: Are you rejoing CTV post loss?

[jjgallow]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

JJ, I've gotta give you credit, you've been in here spewing your hate/garbage/misinformation for a good 4 hours now.

Not bad for a guy with 2 posts in 2 years previous.

One question: Are you rejoing CTV post loss?

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

I can't even listen to Barb Higgins talk without wanting to rip my hair out.

It's a shame you can't listen. Your hair aside, at least my comments had something to do with platforms and issues.

[kipperfan]

This has been a great read! Good ol' JJ cherry picking which posts he wants to respond to, conveniently missing the one's he cannot spin with his BS reasoning and logical fallacies...just awesome stuff.

So JJ, let's talk Barb, since you want so badly to do so. Are you not a little concerned that she has not a lick of experience, not just with regards to municpal governence but with regards to....well, basically anything? Does it not concern you that your choice for the next mayor of Calgary has done nothing but read from a teleprompter for the past 25 years? Wait, wait let me guess, you're going to try and compare her with Klein right? Í wouldn't bother, that comparison has been proven inane pages ago.

Bottom line, everything else aside, Barb is the least qualified candidate to be the mayor of this city, and I am not just comparing her with Nenshi and McIver. But keep going big guy, you're clearly making alot of headway.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

One question: Are you rejoing CTV post loss?

That's what I've been wondering. After this, I can't imagine her being able to go back to being just the nice pretty lady who reads us the news every night.

Everyone else can go back to their regular old lives if they don't win. I wonder what her plan is for Tuesday if Monday doesn't go her way?

[SebC]

Originally Posted by jjgallow

I'd like it to be honest.

For instance (and this is fairly random):

Barbara Kapel Holden is listed as a personal donor. It fails to mention that she is on the board of directors for the Energy Resources Conservation board.
http://www.ercb.ca/portal/server.pt/...on/branch.aspx

They of course determine Enmax's rates. Probably no relation to Gary Holden, CEO of Enmax. I have no idea, nor would it ever be disclosed.


Let me try another..
Steven Paget, a personal donor that just Happens to be the Vice President of First Energy:
http://www.firstenergy.com/page.php?...8&analyst_id=9

Sheila Wasylyshyn...
Executive assistant to the Calgary board of Education Trustees.
Innocent enough, but why not just disclose?

Jim Mitchel...
Maybe just any Jim Mitchel, maybe the Vice President of PCL Construction Canada.
http://csgb.ubc.ca/files/workshop08/AnibalValente.pdf

A real fun one: Susan Stratton.
http://www.ecw.org/aboutme.php?personid=36
Always nice when people suing your industry are also donating in your City's election:
http://www.thestar.com/business/arti...ago-last-month

Anyway, I have no direct links here but am merely trying to illustrate that Nenshi's disclosure is far from transparent, and if you think his "grassroots" campaign is funded any more honestly than the other candidate's....think again.

LOL... the only thing this shows is that it's not a two-horse race.

Seriously, even if the developers were funding him like crazy, it doesn't mean he's sold out (and even if he did, isn't that what you want?)

All it means is that they're trying to get him onside. But his platform is much tougher on them than Higgins or McIvers (and McIver has done absolutely everything they could possibly ask for in council meetings).

[jjgallow]

Originally Posted by Ryan Coke

So, can anyone recommend a good comparison of the platforms between Nenshi and McIver? Trying to get some research in, have read about 20 pages of this thread, but still don't have a good handle on things.

I am down to those two; I am curious about Nenshi, but am concerned he may be too Liberal for my tastes. Basically I need to see if there is anything compelling about Nenshi, and if not I will be fine with McIver. Just trying to get some good comparisons between the 2, and am getting bogged down in the recent stuff about donor lists.

I apologize, Ryan.

I would say that a lot of truth came out in this debate:
http://www.calgarysun.com/news/colum.../15684136.html

As noted, Nenshi's platform is actually quite similar to McIvor's, which of course infuriates McIvor because Nenshi has criticized much of it.

In my opinion, Nenshi is quite liberal and McIvor is more liberal than he claims. Both have basically the exact same platform on things like the airport tunnel, yet criticize each other on it.

Budget-wise, McIvor has stated goals for fiscal responsibility. Nenshi really doesn't. Neither really have a solid plan for fiscal responsibility.

Nenshi is more eloquent,and ironically more of a politician by disposition.

Nenshi probably has more vision, McIvor has more realism.

Nenshi will rely on studies and consultation, McIvor will rely on constituents.

They've got pluses and minus...good luck.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by jjgallow

Nenshi will rely on studies and consultation, McIvor will rely on constituents.

It wasn't McIver's constituents who told him to neuter Plan-It. It was his donors.

[frinkprof]

I think jjgallow has been taking campaigning tips from Team Hawkesworth.

[jjgallow]

Originally Posted by kipperfan

So JJ, let's talk Barb, since you want so badly to do so. Are you not a little concerned that she has not a lick of experience, not just with regards to municpal governence but with regards to....well, basically anything?
Her lack of experience concerns me, yes.
Does it not concern you that your choice for the next mayor of Calgary has done nothing but read from a teleprompter for the past 25 years?
She's been more involved in the community than that, but once again her lack of experience concerns me.

What concerns me more than lack of experience, is considerable experience with little to show for it. That's my worry with Ric McIvor. Is it fair? I don't know. But I'm not impressed with his record, or council's record as a whole, over the last decade.

Nenshi isn't that bad. However, this forum is already focused almost entirely on Nenshi and he just doesn't have the votes. It's between Barb and Ric. That's just how it goes...I don't make the rules.

The choice: No experience but a fresh face with a strong presence, or lots of experience and a guy who still has Race City Speedway as one of the main issues in his platform.

That's all there is...we could compare them to Obama if you like, but it'll be Barb or Ric winning tomorrow.

[jjgallow]

Originally Posted by SebC

It wasn't McIver's constituents who told him to neuter Plan-It. It was his donors.

You're right...I just didn't want to bring donors up anymore...