2009 NCAA football thread!! - Page 66 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

wpgflamesfan · 12-09-2009, 02:34 PM

Personally I love the BCS bowl games the way they are except for one part. Every single game during the season essentially is a playoff game and makes even the 1st week of action super exciting. Are the two teams that make the NC game necessarily the two best teams in the country? No but they're the teams that won the right games at the right times and we would still have the same issue with a playoff.

The one issue I have with the whole system is the preseason rankings. It's too biased towards traditional powerhouse coming from the major conferences. There needs to be some way to fix this. Could they not just run with no rankings all year then do one final ranking once the whole regular season was over?

Displaced Flames fan · 12-09-2009, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by valo403

Precisely why including the likes of Troy is asinine.

And this is what bothers me about anti-playoff folks. Because a smaller program like Troy (which has made phenomenal prgoress since moving up to D-I by the way) can't maintain a consistant competitive level with the 'top teams' or the 'top conferences' they are undeserving of EVER having a shot at a national title. I can't understand that line of thinking.

The media has made the SEC into this invincible conference made up of invincible programs and pumped it up to such proportions that if it is not represented in the title game most people don't legitimize that particular championship in their heads.

What is everyone afraid of? If Troy doesn't deserve to be there they will LOSE.

Anymore there are about five or six programs that have a legitimate shot at the title under the current system and people are happy with that?

valo403 · 12-09-2009, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

And this is what bothers me about anti-playoff folks. Because a smaller program like Troy (which has made phenomenal prgoress since moving up to D-I by the way) can't maintain a consistant competitive level with the 'top teams' or the 'top conferences' they are undeserving of EVER having a shot at a national title. I can't understand that line of thinking.

The media has made the SEC into this invincible conference made up of invincible programs and pumped it up to such proportions that if it is not represented in the title game most people don't legitimize that particular championship in their heads.

What is everyone afraid of? If Troy doesn't deserve to be there they will LOSE.

Anymore there are about five or six programs that have a legitimate shot at the title under the current system and people are happy with that?

You honestly think that a team that wins the Sun Belt deserves to be in a playoff and deserves to reap the massive rewards that brings? Seriously? I can't understand that line of thinking. Is rolling out a couple of lambs to slaughter really an upgrade? I bet the nation will be so excited for that 70-0 Alabama win. We get those games in the early non-conference season now, something that apparently is the BCS's fault according to many, and now you want to move a couple of those games into the playoffs?

Why should Troy get the reward of a playoff when there are 40+ better teams out there simply because they play in a terrible conference?

And again it's about a disconnect with reality. Why would any of the major conferences, or even the MWC and WAC, want to split the pie with conferences that have never in their history shown that they will produce a team that can compete with the very best in the nation? It's not a matter of not consistently showing an ability to compete, they never have.

FlamingLonghorn · 12-09-2009, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

And this is what bothers me about anti-playoff folks. Because a smaller program like Troy (which has made phenomenal prgoress since moving up to D-I by the way) can't maintain a consistant competitive level with the 'top teams' or the 'top conferences' they are undeserving of EVER having a shot at a national title. I can't understand that line of thinking.

The media has made the SEC into this invincible conference made up of invincible programs and pumped it up to such proportions that if it is not represented in the title game most people don't legitimize that particular championship in their heads.

What is everyone afraid of? If Troy doesn't deserve to be there they will LOSE.

Anymore there are about five or six programs that have a legitimate shot at the title under the current system and people are happy with that?

Would you not say that the 56-7 trouncing by Florida shows they dont deserve to be there? No team that gets beat that badly no matter if it is USC, ND, Texas, or Troy should take any part in a tourney to decide the nat'l championship, especially when a better program could be left out. I guess I am happy with the current system. If Troy had trounced Florida, and went undefeated they probably would have been included in the BCS conversation. Utah, Boise St., and TCU are all building towards legitimacy that schools like Texas, Bama, USC, ND built in the last 100 years by being consistent. If TCU continues to dominate they will see a nat'l championship, maybe it will be when they play OU in 2012 or LSU in 2013 and 2014. I also think TCU might be asked to join the Big 12 in the next couple years.

moon · 12-09-2009, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wpgflamesfan

Every single game during the season essentially is a playoff game and makes even the 1st week of action super exciting.

Not really as for 90% of the teams out there after they lose their first game they are finished for the NC and therefore their games aren't super exciting at all.

Since only a handful, and most years even less than that, can win the NC their are very few games that are a play-off game and even less that are super exciting based on the BCS system.

Clever_Iggy · 12-09-2009, 03:09 PM

I'm pretty stoked about my Arizona Wildcats birth in the Holiday Bowl. Nebraska is going to be tough (they played extremely well against Texas), but I think the Wildcats are pretty dynamic offensively. Should be a good one.

Mike Stoops, I hope, has finally turned the corner with that program. There were calls for his job before the beginning of last season, but he got the Cats to a Bowl game and followed it up this year with an extremely strong season.

It's funny how just as the football program appears to be returning to the national stage in terms of respectability, the mens basketball team might be on the outside looking in come March for the first time since the 80s.

JayP · 12-09-2009, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

And this is what bothers me about anti-playoff folks. Because a smaller program like Troy (which has made phenomenal prgoress since moving up to D-I by the way) can't maintain a consistant competitive level with the 'top teams' or the 'top conferences' they are undeserving of EVER having a shot at a national title. I can't understand that line of thinking.

So you're okay with, say, 8-4 East Carolina and their terribly weak conference schedule being in the playoffs ahead of 10+ 9-3 and 8-4 BCS conference teams? You don't see a problem with that at all?

Quote:

The media has made the SEC into this invincible conference made up of invincible programs and pumped it up to such proportions that if it is not represented in the title game most people don't legitimize that particular championship in their heads.

The media have built up the SEC unfairly, I agree, but they've also spit out National Championship teams that have always deserved to be there. Florida, LSU, Alabama - these are all teams that have had a very strong strength of schedule and that's calculated by the computers who have no bias.

Quote:

What is everyone afraid of? If Troy doesn't deserve to be there they will LOSE.

Then what's the point of the game? Furthermore, if Troy doesn't deserve there that means a team that might just deserve to be there doesn't get their shot and the whole credibility of the playoff system is shot.

Quote:

Anymore there are about five or six programs that have a legitimate shot at the title under the current system and people are happy with that?

Those same programs would win the National Championship under a playoff system as well. The BCS isn't the reason that Texas, USC, Florida, etc. are winning titles - it's because they are big name, big money programs that bring in the best coaches in the country and get the best recruits in the country. That has nothing to do with the BCS.

Displaced Flames fan · 12-09-2009, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by valo403

You honestly think that a team that wins the Sun Belt deserves to be in a playoff and deserves to reap the massive rewards that brings? Seriously? I can't understand that line of thinking. Is rolling out a couple of lambs to slaughter really an upgrade? I bet the nation will be so excited for that 70-0 Alabama win. We get those games in the early non-conference season now, something that apparently is the BCS's fault according to many, and now you want to move a couple of those games into the playoffs?

Why should Troy get the reward of a playoff when there are 40+ better teams out there simply because they play in a terrible conference?

And again it's about a disconnect with reality. Why would any of the major conferences, or even the MWC and WAC, want to split the pie with conferences that have never in their history shown that they will produce a team that can compete with the very best in the nation? It's not a matter of not consistently showing an ability to compete, they never have.

No, that's not at all what I was suggesting we do.

Troy was probably a poor example of the point I was trying to illustrate anyway.

Displaced Flames fan · 12-09-2009, 03:35 PM

Ugh.

You guys are unbelievable. I don't have the energy to reply to every underhanded attack on my intelligence or my 'disconnect with reality'.

Bottom line....TCU/Boise St and Cincinatti have done everything they could possibly do this season. They deserve a shot...and I think TCU might have had a legitimate chance at winning....that's why I was rooting for Nebraska the other night.

The number of great programs will continue to shrink as long as only a handful of teams ever have a chance at winning a title. Kids suffer. I think fans suffer as well, but that is clearly not a point that many in this thread agree with.

BTW...if scheduling wasn't predetermined years in advance do you think any of the top programs would play TCU next year (graduating 14 players) to kick off their season? Not a chance. It's a rich get richer system.

And NO, I don't have the answers....but I don't have to like what we have now either.

JayP · 12-09-2009, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by valo403

You honestly think that a team that wins the Sun Belt deserves to be in a playoff and deserves to reap the massive rewards that brings? Seriously? I can't understand that line of thinking. Is rolling out a couple of lambs to slaughter really an upgrade? I bet the nation will be so excited for that 70-0 Alabama win. We get those games in the early non-conference season now, something that apparently is the BCS's fault according to many, and now you want to move a couple of those games into the playoffs?

Why should Troy get the reward of a playoff when there are 40+ better teams out there simply because they play in a terrible conference?

And again it's about a disconnect with reality. Why would any of the major conferences, or even the MWC and WAC, want to split the pie with conferences that have never in their history shown that they will produce a team that can compete with the very best in the nation? It's not a matter of not consistently showing an ability to compete, they never have.

It really is about the disconnect with reality. There's so many more factors than finding the more fair way to crown a National Champion out there.

The problem with pro-playoff people is that screaming "PLAYOFFS!" isn't really saying anything. There's so many potential playoff scenarios out there that without actually supporting one it means nothing.

Look at this thread. A few pages back, someone suggested how an 8-team playoff would leave out either TCU, Boise St, or Florida. So pro-playoff people say "ah, the Big 10 sucks take Ohio St out". Then later on the 16-team playoff with all these non-BCS schools included is brought up. Why is it okay that dumping a power conference champion is fine in one scenario and that including all these terrible conference champions (over Pitt, Miami, etc.) is fine in the next? There's zero consistency.

And, again, you can't just fit the playoff scenario to a given year (say by taking out Ohio St and tossing in Florida) and expect it mean anything. If the NCAA was to put in a playoff it would have to be refined so it works every single season.

Also, the long-term repercussions of a playoff would have to be carefully analyzed. Look at that 16-team playoff scenario. It basically says that winning a power conference means nothing (something the writer actually says and is horribly misguided) as the BCS rankings do the playoff seeding.

So if power conferences mean nothing, why wouldn't major programs like Texas or USC move down to the WAC and Sun Belt, clean house, go undefeated every year and likely be a top 5 seed every year? I don't know how realistic a scenario that actually is, but if pro-playoff people are allowed to align the conferences how they see fit for their own means then why isn't this possible?

Jesse834 · 12-09-2009, 04:10 PM

Is the BCS a congressional issue? Actually, it might be.
The House of Representatives is now discussing a bill that could bring a playoff to college football... or at least force the BCS to drop the term "National Champion".

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/colle...congress_N.htm

Displaced Flames fan · 12-09-2009, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesse834

Is the BCS a congressional issue? Actually, it might be.
The House of Representatives is now discussing a bill that could bring a playoff to college football... or at least force the BCS to drop the term "National Champion".

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/colle...congress_N.htm

Heard James Carville say today he thinks the government should get involved. I don't, personally.

It's all about money...in amateur athletics no less. Seems funny to me.

FlamingLonghorn · 12-10-2009, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Heard James Carville say today he thinks the government should get involved. I don't, personally.

It's all about money...in amateur athletics no less. Seems funny to me.

I don't think they should no matter what system we put in place someone is going to be upset. And if they remove the term national champion who cares. Teams will still play where the most money is even if its called the BCS Champ.

Clever_Iggy · 12-10-2009, 04:23 PM

According to CNNSI.com (front page - breaking news), Notre Dame has hired Brian Kelly from Cincinnati to be its next head coach...

I kinda with the NCAA would put a hold on all hires between the end of the regular season and the conclusion of the bowl season. It kinda sucks to be a Cincinnati fan/player, playing in a BCS game, knowing that your head coach has his office packed for greener pastures for the end of the game.

valo403 · 12-10-2009, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

According to CNNSI.com (front page - breaking news), Notre Dame has hired Brian Kelly from Cincinnati to be its next head coach...

I kinda with the NCAA would put a hold on all hires between the end of the regular season and the conclusion of the bowl season. It kinda sucks to be a Cincinnati fan/player, playing in a BCS game, knowing that your head coach has his office packed for greener pastures for the end of the game.

Will Kelly even coach Cincy in the bowl game? Typically the outgoing coach isn't involved.

cheevers · 12-10-2009, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

According to CNNSI.com (front page - breaking news), Notre Dame has hired Brian Kelly from Cincinnati to be its next head coach...

I kinda with the NCAA would put a hold on all hires between the end of the regular season and the conclusion of the bowl season. It kinda sucks to be a Cincinnati fan/player, playing in a BCS game, knowing that your head coach has his office packed for greener pastures for the end of the game.

In Kelly's case I don't think he is leaving for greener pastures. Notre Dame's glory days seem well and truely over.

Jesse834 · 12-10-2009, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by valo403

Will Kelly even coach Cincy in the bowl game? Typically the outgoing coach isn't involved.

He will not be coaching in the Sugar Bowl. Ouch.
http://www.sportingnews.com/college-...football-coach

Trojan97 · 12-11-2009, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesse834

He will not be coaching in the Sugar Bowl. Ouch.
http://www.sportingnews.com/college-...football-coach

Brutal. What an awful situation for his players.

cheevers · 12-11-2009, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trojan97

Brutal. What an awful situation for his players.

Its funny, in an article on cnnsi.com, theres an article where Golden Tate(notre dame reciever who declared for the draft) says that Kelly is a guy of high character. Really have to doubt that myself. I mean who abandons his team before the biggest game. How hard would it have been to say he will start the day after the bowl game.

moon · 12-11-2009, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheevers

In Kelly's case I don't think he is leaving for greener pastures. Notre Dame's glory days seem well and truely over.

how is it not greener pastures?

He now has a national recruiting base, top notch facilities, big money in salary and to spend on coaching/recruiting, is on TV every week, is the coach of one of the top 5 all-time programs.

Also if his team goes undefeated they play for the NC.

Notre Dame may be down but it is a way better situation than Cincinatti and with him coaching they probably beat the Bearcats by a TD or two.