[Trade] Frost + Farabee from PHI to CGY for Pelletier + Kuzmenko + 25 2nd + 28 7th

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Hackey

The trade in isolation is fine but I still do worry the Flames are on a path right back to the mushy middle. They still lack high end players. Beyond Wolf and potentially Parekh are there any legit top line or top pairing d-men currently in the system? The prospect base looks quite solid but its one of those situations where you can't count your chickens until they hatch. Anyone who has been a fan of the team for a long time has seen many prospects with a lot of hope and promise that came and went. The Flames are quickly running out of assets to trade as well. If Andersson is signed there isn't much left that will bring back any futures of significance. But I think its still early to say what they truly are. Is this season a one off or will this be the norm moving forward? Next season will likely let us know. But drafting becomes more difficult and takes longer once you're picking outside the top 10. A middle pack team without stars becomes a tougher destination to sell to UFAs and even trade targets with no trades. I think Conroy has done a good job at building depth but finding 2 or 3 legit stars might be a challenge. Maybe he can build a team that has such strong depth it can overcome a lack of stars but even then I think they definitely need a couple forwards and another dman that are above anything currently on the team.

I truly think Wolf threw a wrench in his plan. He went into the season with a bottom ten roster on paper. At least Frost and Farabee can be flipped at some point. The off-season and next season will be interesting for sure.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Hackey

The trade in isolation is fine but I still do worry the Flames are on a path right back to the mushy middle. They still lack high end players. Beyond Wolf and potentially Parekh are there any legit top line or top pairing d-men currently in the system? The prospect base looks quite solid but its one of those situations where you can't count your chickens until they hatch. Anyone who has been a fan of the team for a long time has seen many prospects with a lot of hope and promise that came and went. The Flames are quickly running out of assets to trade as well. If Andersson is signed there isn't much left that will bring back any futures of significance. But I think its still early to say what they truly are. Is this season a one off or will this be the norm moving forward? Next season will likely let us know. But drafting becomes more difficult and takes longer once you're picking outside the top 10. A middle pack team without stars becomes a tougher destination to sell to UFAs and even trade targets with no trades. I think Conroy has done a good job at building depth but finding 2 or 3 legit stars might be a challenge. Maybe he can build a team that has such strong depth it can overcome a lack of stars but even then I think they definitely need a couple forwards and another dman that are above anything currently on the team.

I don’t disagree with any of your concerns and the same has crossed my mind. I’m sure Conroy’s too.

Given Wolf’s emergence and what looks like a solid team environment, I think Conroy will try to do two things simultaneously, which unfortunately might be a lot easier said than done.

First, I think the Flames, given the results this year, are likely going to put themselves in a ‘try to get better’ approach and continue to compete for the playoffs. What I think this means is what we just saw with the Flyers trade. Continue to acquire age appropriate players. The Flames might be done for now though. As it’s been stated, often, there are only so many players in that age range, call it 22-26, who are available. Especially ones with upside. In most instances you need to identify a player being miscast, or has fallen out of favour, or simply not living up to their promise. Otherwise you’re giving up a similarly aged player/prospect (Byram for Middlestat for example).

Second, finding that age appropriate C. All things being equal I’m sure the Flames would love, or would have loved, to draft that player. It’s looking that isn’t going to happen this year and may continue to be a long shot if this year is any indication as to what’s to come. I know some think next year and the year after, we may see the bottom fall out in large part due to the vet’s aging out. I’m not so sure I see a significant drop. Couple that with improvement from Zary, Coronato, Farabee, etc. that could more than offset any age related decline. Will Cooley began upgrade on Vladar? This team could be better next year.

So how are they going to do it? Obviously, I think Andersson is a key piece of the puzzle here. If he goes, that will be a big step back. Injuries or bad luck could also derail things, as they can with any team. The bottom falls out in Vegas (unlikely). OR if Parekh, Mews, and Brzu, continue to develop is dealing a young RHS D something the Flames need to consider? Arguably, behind a C, RHS D are the hardest spots to fill and the Flames have a surplus, especially with Weegar and, potentially, Andersson, still in the picture. Is there a team out there with a surplus of young C’s that need to find an offensive RHS D? Is there a commensurate C to Mews out there, as an example?

It may turn out that the Flames might need to find themselves a repeat of the Hanifin/Lindholm trade. It might not ever land them a truly elite C, but it might find them one who is good enough. And on balance, if Wolf is a truly elite G, that might be the ‘model’ for the Flames.

[Vinny01]

Going to take a stab at lines when everyone is healthy

Huberdeau-Kadri-Farabee
Zary-Frost-Sharangovich
Coleman-Backlund-Coronato
Lomberg-Pospisil-Klapka
Rooney

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Bonded

I truly think Wolf threw a wrench in his plan. He went into the season with a bottom ten roster on paper. At least Frost and Farabee can be flipped at some point. The off-season and next season will be interesting for sure.

I think you right. I think Wolf has changed the equation here. I think the Flames will need to try to continue to build a solid base of pics/prospects, but I’m skeptical it will be with top 10 pics, let alone top 5, which a lot of us were hoping for.

Similar to what many have been saying, Carolina seems to have done this and through their continued stock piling of picks and developing them, they put themselves in position to be able to acquire outside assets that cam really move the needle.

[FlamesAreOne]

I can't wait to see the lines this morning.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

Not even laced on skates as a Flame yet and we can get this whole bull#### debate started. Is he a top-6? A middle-6? A number 2, but not a "true" number 2? Is his ceiling a middle-of-the pack 2, or a high number 3? Is his floor good enough to stay in the top 9?

Let's maybe see how he plays as a member of this team? That might contain some important data points. It could be downright illuminating.

Pretty hostile response for a simple comment. I'm hoping that he becomes a #1 of high #2 center as well, but I just doubt on that happening.

[Fan69]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Going to take a stab at lines when everyone is healthy

Huberdeau-Kadri-Farabee
Zary-Frost-Sharangovich
Coleman-Backlund-Coronato
Lomberg-Pospisil-Klapka
Rooney

I keep asking what is this fascination with pospisil as a center? To my mind we got frost so we can stop putting wingers at center? Having backs there changes what that line looks like and can do instead of a prototypical fourth that kept getting caved.

Kadri
Frost
Zary
Backs

To my mind this was the plan.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Fan69

I keep asking what is this fascination with pospisil as a center? To my mind we got frost so we can stop putting wingers at center? Having backs there changes what that line looks like and can do instead of a prototypical fourth that kept getting caved.

Kadri
Frost
Zary
Backs

To my mind when this was the plan.

Because it is the 4th line. Which of those 4 do you want centering the Lomberg line? Backs and Coleman likely stick so I don’t see him as the 4th line C so do you prefer Zary or Frost centering our 4th line?

[SuperMatt18]

Yup people seem to think Huska is suddenly going to put Backlund with Lomberg and Klapka on the 4th line when Backlund is still the coaches most trusted center.

So it would never be Backs on the 4th line - it would be one of Frost or Zary.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Yup people seem to think Huska is suddenly going to put Backlund with Lomberg and Klapka on the 4th line when Backlund is still the coaches most trusted center.

So it would never be Backs on the 4th line - it would be one of Frost or Zary.

Agreed not this year, however its definitely not Frost or Zary

My guess Zary is no longer a center.

Its Kadri, Backlund, Frost, the forth center is still a piece the Flames are looking for in my opinion

[Fan69]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Because it is the 4th line. Which of those 4 do you want centering the Lomberg line? Backs and Coleman likely stick so I don’t see him as the 4th line C so do you prefer Zary or Frost centering our 4th line?

Backs is a bottom six center he doesnt have the offense to be higher. Kadri is playing at top six borderline top line, frost is playing at high middle six hopefully he gains some confidence and plays at top six levels. Zary was playing well at center and should continue to do so but he was playing at middle six before injury. Playing and status make this a no brainer. Kadri is your top line, frost is your second, zary learns on the third and the bottom two lines three lines switch ice times depending on whos hot that game.

We dont have a mckheatedriveway or mackinnon but what we do have is some serious depth with three guys possibly being top six centers.

I dont buy the checking line bs if you have someone out their they should be somewhat of a threat to score. I oll four lines swamp other teams the lower ice times keep them from burning out playing this style if hockey.

[Ryan Coke]

The reality is that you want your best players playing more, and the 4th line will get fewer minutes. So putting a Backlund, or Zary, or Frost on the fourth line is rarely the move, as opposed to putting more skill on your top 3 lines who almost always get more ice time.

If you decide to play your 4th line more, it means that you are taking time away from your top 3 lines.

[RedHawk12]

Frost gives me Bennett vibes. Not in terms of style of play, but potential impact in lineup. Former 1st rounders that has grown stale with his former team. Goes to a new team, gets the ice time boost and bump up in production. I'm expecting him to turn into a good 2nd line center for us - a 60 pt guy maybe.

The return in Pelletier + 2nd is also in line with what we got for Bennett, which if i recall was Heineman and a 2nd.

To get Farabee on top of that while not giving up anything additional of value is pure gravy.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by flambers

Agreed not this year, however its definitely not Frost or Zary

My guess Zary is no longer a center.

Its Kadri, Backlund, Frost, the forth center is still a piece the Flames are looking for in my opinion

I agree with you, but the initial argument from some has been that Kadri, Zary, Frost, and Backlund will be the 4 centers and in those scenarios Backlund will be 4 C.

Which isn't happening, Huska isn't making Backlund 4C or splitting up the CBC line

[kehatch]

Backlund is still the teams best defensive C. He and Coleman are still the teams best defensive duo. He is still 7 in team scoring. Plus he is our captain. He isn't going to be on the fourth line.

[Roof-Daddy]

Adding these two along with the emergence of the young guys and this team really looks like it has three 2nd lines and one 4th line.

[Gordon Bombay]

Originally Posted by Fan69

I keep asking what is this fascination with pospisil as a center? To my mind we got frost so we can stop putting wingers at center? Having backs there changes what that line looks like and can do instead of a prototypical fourth that kept getting caved.

Kadri
Frost
Zary
Backs

To my mind this was the plan.

I agree that Pospisil isn't a center in the top 9, but he can play center for 8-12 mins a night on the 4th line. That line would be fun to watch too I'd think.

[Fan69]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I agree with you, but the initial argument from some has been that Kadri, Zary, Frost, and Backlund will be the 4 centers and in those scenarios Backlund will be 4 C.

Which isn't happening, Huska isn't making Backlund 4C or splitting up the CBC line

And why would he have to?

Lets throw a left field scenarios out there.
Frost is good defensively and better than backs offensively as well as faster younger and bigger. Lets say he and farabee and scoronato or sharky become a line and lo and behold they are a better line than the backs combo because frost is bigger younger faster and more offensive minded but still defensively responsible and being paired with similar younger players? Crazy right?

Someone made the comment your best players should be playing the most and that’s exactly what i did. If we get anything like what i expect from frost and zary continues his development is the way he has backs is bottom lines whether he likes it or not.


Having backs mentor young guys coming up while making bottom lines a rock is exactly where backs should be while the younger guys do the heavy lifting.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Fan69

Backs is a bottom six center he doesnt have the offense to be higher. Kadri is playing at top six borderline top line, frost is playing at high middle six hopefully he gains some confidence and plays at top six levels. Zary was playing well at center and should continue to do so but he was playing at middle six before injury. Playing and status make this a no brainer. Kadri is your top line, frost is your second, zary learns on the third and the bottom two lines three lines switch ice times depending on whos hot that game.

We dont have a mckheatedriveway or mackinnon but what we do have is some serious depth with three guys possibly being top six centers.

I dont buy the checking line bs if you have someone out their they should be somewhat of a threat to score. I oll four lines swamp other teams the lower ice times keep them from burning out playing this style if hockey.

Backlund at this point is still an elite shut down defensive center.

The whole team is down 12% in scoring this year, so his pace towards his average of 40 points is similar.

And he's a 2nd half guy.

He's not centering the fourth line.

[Fan69]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Backlund at this point is still an elite shut down defensive center.

The whole team is down 12% in scoring this year, so his pace towards his average of 40 points is similar.

And he's a 2nd half guy.

He's not centering the fourth line.

We have scoring woes? So we should continue to put an aging center who has never been a scoring machine front and center for ice time and it will get better? How much of an improvement from our mid thirties center should we expect in the second half?

We just got a guy who is younger faster more offensively minded than backs and a young center trending toward top six production but keep playing backs?

Sorry i dont get it.

Roll four lines.