Stabbing in Brentwood-5 Dead, 1 Arrested

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

That's how you feel you're being categorized and pylon feels people are lacking empathy for the five victims. Neither are reality however.

I didn't say I personally felt categorized as such. There is much more to this thread than my five posts.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by pylon

I would love one of them to explain it to one of the families. I can guarantee you, with 100% certainty, at least one of them, isn't sympathetic to Matthew DeGrood's plight, one iota. And that is fact.

Brilliant.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by pylon

I realize it is entirely anecdotal. But the only 2 people I know on a personal level, that would even have a remotely qualified opinion on this, believe the guy should be committed for life.

Summarily, not one person on this board, myself included, has a qualified opinion either. Unless of course they are a Psychiatrist, or Psychologist. I may be wrong in thinking he is never fit for release, but those that fell he is, may be equally wrong. However those that feel he should be, seem to think they are right and everyone else who doesn't share their opinion is a misinformed, slack jawed, buffoon.

I had a friend growing up who tried to kill his mother. He was later diagnosed with schizophrenia and ended up spending some time in the hospital to get treatment. He was later released and tried to live his life as best he could. In the end he committed suicide. Of course i'm not a Psychiatrist, or Psychologist but I do have some insight and feel i'm allowed to form an opinion.

There are no gaurentees in cases like this and we have to trust the people in the medical filed who are treating him and the review board that will decide if he does or doesn't get freedom. If in the end he doesn't get freedom i'm fine with that also. I have empathy for both the victim and the family.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by pylon

I realize it is entirely anecdotal. But the only 2 people I know on a personal level, that would even have a remotely qualified opinion on this, believe the guy should be committed for life.

Summarily, not one person on this board, myself included, has a qualified opinion either. Unless of course they are a Psychiatrist, or Psychologist. I may be wrong in thinking he is never fit for release, but those that fell he is, may be equally wrong. However those that feel he should be, seem to think they are right and everyone else who doesn't share their opinion is a misinformed, slack jawed, buffoon.

Well the people you're willing to trust, psychologists and psychiatrists with expertise in the field, have said that he may be fit for freedom some day. So that means the crowd yelling about locking him up for life is in fact wrong. Am I missing something here?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by pylon

I would love one of them to explain it to one of the families. I can guarantee you, with 100% certainty, at least one of them, isn't sympathetic to Matthew DeGrood's plight, one iota. And that is fact.

But hey, they are just barbaric for feeling that way.

Knock it off Pylon!

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Dion

Knock it off Pylon!

Well, the general consensus here, is Degrood deserves unconditional understanding and sympathy. Why would that not extend to the family of the victims?

It's a very fair comment.

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

He never said it was all or nothing but this thread has 10x more talk about de grood than it does about any of the victims. Lately, this thread is mostly a vocal group of people trying to make other people feel bad because they don't sympathize with the murderer enough. There should be the expectation that there will be a wide variety of opinions in a case like this, I'm not sure why that is so offensive to some. Get over it, not everyone shares that opinion, and it doesn't mean they are bad people or need to be educated by the PC brigade.

Not sympathize, empathize. There is a difference that some here don't seem to understand.

http://grammarist.com/usage/empathy-sympathy/

And what is there to discuss about the victims? Or their families? They're going to go on with their lives as best as they can, and frankly, we should leave them alone unless they ask for support. de Grood is still alive and needs to be dealt with. I think this discussion about his future is needed, but it has to be done so with understanding and reason.

The problem some of us have with the opinions expressed is that they're based on emotion, not facts. Have you looked into whether people found not criminally responsible are actually a danger to the public when released? Has anyone mentioned the recidivism rate for people found NCR and released to the public? It's half of that of "regular" prisoners.



There seems to be a worry that they're going to "snap" and re-offend, but if it's less likely than someone who was convicted of a violent crime, why is the uproar so much bigger? When a gang member is convicted, we don't see threads with dozens of pages about their eventual release.

I think it all comes down to the stigma of mental health. We've got a long way to go when a sick person isn't trusted in society as much as a cold-blooded killer.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by pylon

Well, the general consensus here, is Degrood deserves unconditional understanding and sympathy. Why would that not extend to the family of the victims?

It's a very fair comment.

The problem is the sarcastic digs you are taking at some of us here. Why not ask people what they feel before making assumptions. Be fair.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by pylon

Well, the general consensus here, is Degrood deserves unconditional understanding and sympathy. Why would that not extend to the family of the victims?



It's a very fair comment.

Empathising with the families does not require calling for DeGrood's head.

Please identify one instance where unconditional understanding and sympathy for the families has been condemned.

Just one.

[sketchyt]

Originally Posted by pylon

Well, the general consensus here, is Degrood deserves unconditional understanding and sympathy. Why would that not extend to the family of the victims?

It's a very fair comment.

Weird. The general vibe I'm getting is that this is a super-complex issue that's beyond most people's comprehension, life experiences, and professional opinion. I see a smattering of people who are driven by emotion and wish to deal in absolutes and hyperbole.

Like you, I don't think DeGroot should be allowed in public and it's been interesting to see how this ruling has differed from Li at least initially.

But there's SO MUCH in terms of morality, ethics, justice and its system, punishment, mental health, etc... that I don't even know where to begin to decide what's right or wrong for everyone. Maybe you're different.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by sketchyt

Weird. The general vibe I'm getting is that this is a super-complex issue that's beyond most people's comprehension, life experiences, and professional opinion. I see a smattering of people who are driven by emotion and wish to deal in absolutes and hyperbole.

Like you, I don't think DeGroot should be allowed in public and it's been interesting to see how this ruling has differed from Li at least initially.

But there's SO MUCH in terms of morality, ethics, justice and its system, punishment, mental health, etc... that I don't even know where to begin to decide what's right or wrong for everyone. Maybe you're different.

I see it as an emotionaly charged issue where everyones backs are going up over what the other person has said. Strong beliefs on both sides as to how best to deal with DeGroot over the long term.

[pylon]

I do also think both sides of this argument are taking their stance from a position that "Because I believe this, it MUST be right."

I am willing to concede, I might be wrong. I have no issue admitting that. But some people in this debate, are insistent on passive aggressively insulting people who don't share their point of view. And demanding that anyone who believes he should be held for life, be labelled as a complete moron.

[Wiggum_PI]

Listening to the statements by Miles Hong and Gregg Perras after the trial, it sounds like the families are pretty indignant of the NCR ruling, and don't want De Grood to ever be released back into society.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qGISdn8gxM

[pylon]

And Miles nailed it on the head "The families will be forced to re-live this every year an NCR review is performed." Call me a barbarian for thinking so, but the families, and friends of the victims, which likely number into the hundreds, don't deserve to have to re-live this every year. In my opinion that alone trumps DeGroods freedom. They shouldn't be forced to suffer any more than they have.

[CaptainCrunch]

I do think that at the end of the day that this is the right decision, or at least the only decision. I do feel for the families and watching them making their statements after the decision really hurt my heart.

I tend to think that the worst day will be the day when DeGroot is released, and it will happen one day. Also they will be forced to relive this hell every year up to that point.

I tend to agree that the Crown Prosecutors next logical step will be to get DeGroot named as a dangerous offender, which will make his release more stringent and difficult to get.

All I can hope for is that the families of the victims find some peace, even though that day might never come due to the process that they're going to have to go through.

I also hope that the family of DeGroot finds a way to reconcile these events and find forgiveness for themselves.

I also hope for some miracle cure for DeGroots mental condition and that he can try to make up for what he's done by finding his sanity, because this whole thing will be a waste if he can't.

[Mr.Coffee]

Yeah, I'm not sure I am totally sold on the notion that deGrood should be released into society due to NCR. I have read everything in this thread and have empathy for him, but this entire trial seems odd to me. I can't quite put my finger on exactly why yet and I understand it doesn't make sense to hold a guy forever that's literally deemed not responsible.

Maybe that's the stigma that I've been brainwashed into believing. Maybe it's the brutal nature of the crimes (I liked the analogy previously about the car manslaughter, and comparatively speaking it could essentially be the same thing but is it?).

I would be willing to bet a lot of others agree with me too, but there's likely some hesitation to post given the seemingly aggressive nature that posters get thrashed around on this topic. It would be uncomfortable to me if society depended on deGrood to medicate himself, and I feel like it's not totally sensible, even if it's the "right" thing to do.

[8 Ball]

The high risk ncr designation is a good idea, families having to only go to the hearings every three years would greatly lessen the burden on them

[Dion]

No parent should ever have to bury their child. That is the greatest tragedy in all this.

[sun]

Originally Posted by pylon

So people need to stop with that assumption. Not every mental professional sympathizes with people with these disorders to the extent they deserve freedom. They may be willing to help them clinically, but not every single one believes they deserve the freedom some of you seem to assume they should have.

Who has made that assumption?

Originally Posted by pylon

And the lack of empathy for these families on this board also sickens me as well. Regardless of if he meant to do it or not, it was a horrific act of pure evil, and no, I wouldn't want Matthew DeGrood as my neighbor, any more or less than I would want Jeffrey Dahmer.

Who is lacking empathy with the victims? You are "sickened" because you are creating scenarios in your brain which do not exist in reality. Try not to do this to yourself, you don't deserve it.

Originally Posted by pylon

However those that feel he should be, seem to think they are right and everyone else who doesn't share their opinion is a misinformed, slack jawed, buffoon.

In what post did this take place? It "seems" this way to you? Why?

Originally Posted by pylon

I would love one of them to explain it to one of the families. I can guarantee you, with 100% certainty, at least one of them, isn't sympathetic to Matthew DeGrood's plight, one iota. And that is fact.

But hey, they are just barbaric for feeling that way.

Who has said the families of the victims are barbaric for not being sympathetic to the man who murdered their children?

Originally Posted by pylon

Well, the general consensus here, is Degrood deserves unconditional understanding and sympathy. Why would that not extend to the family of the victims?

It's a very fair comment.

Who has called for unconditional sympathy for the killer? Who has claimed that sympathy should not extend to the families of the victims?

Originally Posted by pylon

And demanding that anyone who believes he should be held for life, be labelled as a complete moron.

Who has demanded labels of moronity?

Originally Posted by pylon

And Miles nailed it on the head "The families will be forced to re-live this every year an NCR review is performed." Call me a barbarian for thinking so, but the families, and friends of the victims, which likely number into the hundreds, don't deserve to have to re-live this every year. In my opinion that alone trumps DeGroods freedom. They shouldn't be forced to suffer any more than they have.

Who would call you a barbarian for thinking that the families don't deserve to re-live the worst moment of their lives? Really, who?

Seriously pylon, dial it back brother. If you have a point to make, skip the hyperbole and don't falsely represent the views of your opponents. Your opinion will be listened to, respected, and maybe responded to civilly.

[Dion]

I think everyone should walk away from this thread and take some time to cool off. It serves no useful purpose when we're taking shots at one another.