2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[jessnuts]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

That is a damn terrible return for a young top pairing D, Flyers hang up.

I believe this is a classic example of the Brock Nelson/Josh Bailey Paradox. It's where your brain cannot straighten out who is who, or who did what or has which value between two players on a team you just dint follow that closely. It was formerly known as the Matt Moulson/Kyle Okposo Conundrum.
Also referred to as Palmeri/Zajac Anomoly and Schenn/Schwartz Problem.

The player I believe you are thinking of is Ivan Provorov.

[RedHawk12]

Originally Posted by jessnuts

I believe this is a classic example of the Brock Nelson/Josh Bailey Paradox. It's where your brain cannot straighten out who is who, or who did what or has which value between two players on a team you just dint follow that closely. It was formerly known as the Matt Moulson/Kyle Okposo Conundrum.
Also referred to as Palmeri/Zajac Anomoly and Schenn/Schwartz Problem.

The player I believe you are thinking of is Ivan Provorov.

I think he might be referring to Seth Jones...probably meant to say the Blue Jackets hang up, not Flyers. I would agree that Ghost, Patrick and 1st is not a good package at all for Jones.

[Mass_nerder]

Originally Posted by RedHawk12

I think he might be referring to Seth Jones...probably meant to say the Blue Jackets hang up, not Flyers. I would agree that Ghost, Patrick and 1st is not a good package at all for Jones.

Anything is a good package at this point, considering he's outright told Columbus he's not signing there

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Mass_nerder

Anything is a good package at this point, considering he's outright told Columbus he's not signing there

Huh?

Since there would be multiple suitors for Jones, his trade value would not be effected by his decision to not resign there.


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[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Who is the young top pairing D in this scenario?

Ghost? The 28 year old who cleared waivers?

Dammit, I meant Jackets hang up..that Flyers package is bad.

[keenan87]

The more I think about it.. I think we are going to see a deal centered around Monahan for Jones as well as Gaudreau for Konecny.. then one of Backlund or Giordano will go to Seattle.. and Taylor Hall will be signed.

[GS Skier]

Originally Posted by keenan87

The more I think about it.. I think we are going to see a deal centered around Monahan for Jones as well as Gaudreau for Konecny.. then one of Backlund or Giordano will go to Seattle.. and Taylor Hall will be signed.

Keep thinking. Your imagination is running wild.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by keenan87

The more I think about it.. I think we are going to see a deal centered around Monahan for Jones as well as Gaudreau for Konecny.. then one of Backlund or Giordano will go to Seattle.. and Taylor Hall will be signed.

Sounds like the new GM is going to be busy,

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by keenan87

The more I think about it.. I think we are going to see a deal centered around Monahan for Jones as well as Gaudreau for Konecny.. then one of Backlund or Giordano will go to Seattle.. and Taylor Hall will be signed.

Monny in a deal for Jones?

Teams will line up to make offers for Jones and you think a deal centred around Monny for Jones will win the day? I am, of course, assuming that Columbus has been paying attention with how Monny has been looking these days.


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[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Dammit, I meant Jackets hang up..that Flyers package is bad.

And what exactly do you think a player with one year left on his contract is going to demand in return? Keep in mind that dollars also have to be even, or slightly stacked to the Columbus side. Please present what you think it would take to acquire Jones, given the circumstances. Deals in the NHL are not easy to put together thanks to roster limits and cap implications.

And don’t forget Jones has a 10 team no trade list. 1/3 of the league is out on bidding.

[Erick Estrada]

It will be interesting to see what happens with Taylor Hall in the offseason. IMO his days of $8 million a season look over. He's rounding more into a complementary top 6 winger and I don't know how much term you would want to commit given he seems to be declining.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It will be interesting to see what happens with Taylor Hall in the offseason. IMO his days of $8 million a season look over. He's rounding more into a complementary top 6 winger and I don't know how much term you would want to commit given he seems to be declining.

If you’re signing him to be your 2nd line LW, he should be a fantastic add. When the pressure is off, Hall played well behind Marchand. We could do the same here when we have two LW’s that are better, so that checks of that box. I do fear some random team is going to give him that 7.25 x 6, or something crazy like that. Anything past 5 years would be a mistake.

[Mass_nerder]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Huh?

Since there would be multiple suitors for Jones, his trade value would not be effected by his decision to not resign there.


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I was suggesting that if no one else is offering anything, then Columbus would have to take what they could get. I hadn't heard about many teams being rumored to be chasing Jones; however, I also didn't realize they've moved the draft date, so obviously there's a lot more time to get things done.

[Toonage]

Taylor Hall will be a year into retirement and people will still want to sign him. What is the obsession with Hall?

[Geeoff]

I'm not interested in Taylor Hall. Even if we move Gaudreau, we still have Mangiapane. Better uses of cap space IMO

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

And what exactly do you think a player with one year left on his contract is going to demand in return? Keep in mind that dollars also have to be even, or slightly stacked to the Columbus side. Please present what you think it would take to acquire Jones, given the circumstances. Deals in the NHL are not easy to put together thanks to roster limits and cap implications.

And don’t forget Jones has a 10 team no trade list. 1/3 of the league is out on bidding.

That offer doesn’t move the needle in the summer and that is barely a deadline price. I know you don’t think much of Patrick so that is not the argument. Maybe you think Ghost is more than a brutal contract at this point?

Columbus takes on bad money just to send their top Dman to a division rival so they can get a pick and a former top pick who is a definite bust risk?

It all comes down to what they think about Patrick and if they think there is some top 6 potential out there then maybe. I feel like Patrick bad at best slightly more value than when Bennett was traded.

Looking at it that way we see what a 1st and 2 2nds can buy when it comes to Dmen. It got the Flames a RFA high ceiling 22 year old with a 40pt season under his belt. It also got them a #4 D who was sold as a #2 who was supposed to have a great contract with 3 years term.

There is more missing from Philly’s end when you consider Jones is more proven and the Jsckets need to take on Gostisbhere. If they throw in another high end prospect I think that is a deal that could get done especially if they let Jones and the Flyers work out an extension in advance.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Taylor Hall will be a year into retirement and people will still want to sign him. What is the obsession with Hall?

Over the last 5 years, while playing for almost exclusively horrible teams in varying degrees of rebuilds and disarray, he's 44th in points per game league-wide. Johnny Gaudreau is the only player we have that is higher than that.

For a team that struggles to produce offence, why is it a shock that people would like to see him signed?

[Toonage]

I just don't see it. I don't see a guy that moves the needle. I don't see a guy that makes his teammates better, or the teams he plays for. I don't see a high hockey IQ when he's on the ice. Guess I'm just not a fan.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Toonage

I just don't see it. I don't see a guy that moves the needle. I don't see a guy that makes his teammates better, or the teams he plays for. I don't see a high hockey IQ when he's on the ice. Guess I'm just not a fan.

This is basically what everyone else is saying… it’ll be interesting to see where his salary lands because everything you wrote here is accurate. So is the fact he’s 44th in points per game over the last half decade as posted above.

[powderjunkie]

The Jones situation is very similar to E Karlsson. Except Jones is about 18 months younger (than EK at the time), and Karlsson was far more distinguished (7 straight years nearly PPG).

OTT ended up with quite the haul, though it may have been lightning in a bottle with a team in complete win-now mode and a cheapskate owner not wanting back any salary...

Demelo
Tierney
Balcers (21 yo with 0 gp at the time; played 36 and 15 in OTT before being waived and claimed back by SJ...17P in 41gp for them this year)
Josh Norris (signing rights - NCAA)

2021 2nd (SJ) - was contingent on re-signing
2019 2nd (FLA)
2020 1st (became Stutzle) - "*Conditions: Ottawa receives Sharks 2019 1st round pick if Sharks do not make the playoffs. If Sharks make the playoffs, Ottawa receives Sharks 2020 1st.
*Result: Sharks made the 2019 playoffs, Ottawa receives Sharks 2020 1st round pick"


Summarized to value at time of trade:

25 yo RHD - 133gp; coming off 63gp 20p season. 2x900k then UFA

24 yo C - 3.5 seasons; coming off 16G 40P season; 2x2.937 then RFA

C prospect picked 19OA the year before; NCAA

21 yo winger prospect; 5th rd pick coming off strong season in AHL (48p in 67 gp)

1st rd pick - most would expect to be in the back half of the round, but OTT achieved a condition that got them 2 chances at a lottery pick, and it paid off hugely.

2nd rd pick (2021) - contingent on re-signing (and upgrades to 1st if SJ had made SCF)

2nd rd pick (2019) - guaranteed, and to be higher of SJ/FLA

*1st rd pick if Karlsson is traded back to East Conference that year


A Jones return would likely be substantially less, but it's a good comparison point.