[Trade] Elias Lindholm + Noah Hanifin to Flames for D. Hamilton, Micheal Ferland, & Adam Fox

[Otto-matic]

The more I sit on it. I'm starting to like it more.

I mean what are the chances Fox signs with the tire fire Carolina team when he can probably go UFA like Schultz did.

[AC]

Originally Posted by Otto-matic

The more I sit on it. I'm starting to like it more.

I mean what are the chances Fox signs with the tire fire Carolina team when he can probably go UFA like Schultz did.

Similar to Brandon Hickey going to ARZ for Mike Smith.

Flames fans were upset he was included, and now his rights are with Buffalo.

[Monahammer]

Lol brodie a dynamic presence on both ends... dynamic for the other team in our end. Guy gets walked 8 times per game and coughs up the puck behind the net 5 times out of ten.

If we can get anything useful for brodie we should.

[Mass_nerder]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Honestly, he was too rarely able to achieve the balance of “a tough guy who can play.”

He was fun to have on the team and i’ll always like him as a person and a player, but I don’t think he consistently did anything that would be hard to replace.

No, he wasn't a menace on the ice, but if someone needed their face punched, I felt confident that Ferland could handle almost anyone in the league.
I don't think we have anyone on the roster that could step in to that role, and finding someone that can play up and down the lineup and fight almost anyone is tough.

[Otto-matic]

Originally Posted by AC

Similar to Brandon Hickey going to ARZ for Mike Smith.

Flames fans were upset he was included, and now his rights are with Buffalo.

Yeah I can see Carolina moving Fox's rights to another team as a deadline toss in then.

I have a feeling Tre is making a big splash on July 1st now. We have what like 24 Million in Cap Space?

[Wood]

Originally Posted by Otto-matic

The more I sit on it. I'm starting to like it more.

I mean what are the chances Fox signs with the tire fire Carolina team when he can probably go UFA like Schultz did.

I don't think there's any chance he signs in Carolina

Like Erixon, I think Fox ends up in NY. I expect Carolina to either attempt to flip him before the deadline after they fail to get him signed, or end up losing him as a free agent

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

Please explain this for me. At least to make me feel better about this trade.

There's really no indication, from what I've read, that he's even better defensively, let alone way better.

This is just fanbase justification. We'll have to see how this turns out.

[transplant99]

@LukeDeCock
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If the Hurricanes trade Lindholm to Calgary to play for Bill Peters after he turned down their contract offer yesterday, that would be one of the great don't-let-the-door-hit-you-on-the-way-outs of all time.

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@LukeDeCock
10h10 hours ago
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Hanifin and Lindholm for Hamilton, Ferland and Fox (Harvard D prospect) is the deal. RFAs Hanifin and Lindholm both rejected contract offers and were traded within 48 hours.

From earlier today...he is the senior writer for the local Raleigh paper and has covered them for many many years.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Wasn't it Brodie who got torched by McDavid more often?

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

Please explain this for me. At least to make me feel better about this trade.

I don't think that's accurate, but you should still feel good about the trade.

First of all, the difference between Gio/Dougie and Gio/Brodie is negligible in the grand scheme of things. Both pairs do what you want your top pairing to do. As disappointing as Brodie's play has been (since Dougie was acquired, really), when Brodie is on, Brodie can control the entire game. I never saw Dougie dominate in the way Brodie is capable. Dougie returned a much more significant package than Brodie. I'm okay with moving him in a deal that returns Hanifin and Lindholm. I wouldn't be okay if we just got one, but when for both I have no qualms.

Second, Hanifin is 21. He's had three full NHL seasons under his belt. His offense is there, and his defense is coming. Defenders take time - they have to be allowed to make mistakes. We all love to mention all the games Kylington has played in the AHL and how's he only the exact same age as Hanifin who's played nearly as many NHL contests. He's going to be fine.

Third, the Flames got a first line forward out of the deal as well. Someone who can play centre, who has excellent faceoff numbers, who plays 3v3, PK, who is 23 and cost controlled for his best years. Lindholm is likely to cost less than any free agent winger we could sign for the top six. My bold prediction: Lindholm outscores every free agent RW available July 1. Johnny and Monahan wrecked the league with a 32 year old Jiri Hudler. I am more than comfortable betting they can do more with 24-28 year old Elias Lindholm.

Lots to like, I'm excited to see how they work.

[FireGilbert]

I do not mind this trade and it seems even at first glance.

I like Hamilton and it is sad to see him go but am really happy to have Hanifin as the replacement. What a stud prospect. It is a downgrade short term but has the potential to a wash or even a slight upgrade long term. I do not get comparisons to the Phanuef trade at all. If that trade had returned two young 5th overall picks we would have been much happier. It is also interesting this trades a RHD for a LHD and I wonder if the reunification of Gio and Brodie is immanent or if the Flames are going to sick with D playing their correct side pushing Andersson up the depth chart. In any case this give the Flames a lot of options for D pairings.

I like Ferland but the team was going no where counting on him a top scoring winger and it was smart to sell high a year before he gets overpaid. Linholm has a much higher ceiling and I think being a right handed shot with good two way play makes him a better fit on the first line. This will also add some variety to the names on the Flames, getting rid of a Mike and bringing in an Elias and Noah.

Losing Fox really hurts but from the sounds of it he wasn't going to sign. The Flames did need to add and if the Canes say they really want Fox then it is a pretty easy decision.

I am not sure this is the best trade from the Canes perspective. Yes they get the best player in the trade right now and maybe that is what they need to take the next step, however this is a team that was already good on defence and needed to improve their forwards. I see it as a cost cutting move, trading out two players looking for a raise for a player locked up at a good value and another who is off the books in a year.

I am surprised at some of the harsh reactions on here but I guess it is another classic case of over evaluating your own players and under evaluating other teams players. I understand some of the comments though around trading the best player and not getting full value for Fox. Overall I think the Flames are a slightly better built team today and am a bit more optimistic for success long term.

[chedder]

I liked Ferland but he's a 30 point player (unless he's with two first line all stars).
He will hit and fight less at a steep rate as he ages. Also, he's had too many concussions already in his career. Similar to Bourque in that respect.

If Hamilton was bad in the room then this is a good move as well. And if Hanifin is better defensively, takes less stupid penalties and can keep progressing at age 21, then it's a win.

If management thought Hamilton was a player that didn't care whether they win or lose then good move as well

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Lol brodie a dynamic presence on both ends... dynamic for the other team in our end. Guy gets walked 8 times per game and coughs up the puck behind the net 5 times out of ten.

If we can get anything useful for brodie we should.

From what I read on the Canes forum Hanifin is similar. I believe that someone said he is -53 in his three years with Carolina. I understand that overall Carolina has been pretty awful but that shouldn't be an excuse for -53.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

From what I read on the Canes forum Hanifin is similar. I believe that someone said he is -53 in his three years with Carolina. I understand that overall Carolina has been pretty awful but that shouldn't be an excuse for -53.

Their goaltending has been bad. really bad for years.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

How home fans try to rationalize a lost hockey trade:

1. Guys we traded are suddenly mysteriously worse than they were yesterday (see "Hamilton is terrible at defense")
2. Guys we traded suddenly have other problems plaguing them that don't relate to their hockey ability (see "Hamilton didn't fit in" or "We wouldn't have been able to sign Fox")
3. Trying to justify it based on contract status - which is hilarious in this case since Hamilton's on a great cost-controlled deal for 3 more years while Lindholm and Hanifin don't have contracts at all.
4. "You don't know how this will turn out yet so how can you say it's bad"

The immediate reaction was the right one. Read the first dozen pages of this thread while it was breaking. It's basically all "we'd better be getting more than that back" and "Even just Hamilton for Lindholm/Hanifin might be a win for Carolina, why is Brad adding Ferland and Fox". That's essentially the naked, honest truth before motivated reasoning has had a chance to set in. Yeah, it could turn out fine. Could be great. Hanifin could turn into a Norris winner. But based on what we've seen so far you've got a middle six 40-50 point forward and a second pairing defenseman.

I'm sure Oiler fans said many of the same things about Adam Larsson and Ryan Strome - highly drafted players who hadn't yet lived up to the hype when they were acquired. I think Hanifin and Lindholm are better than those guys right now, and I think Brad gave up less to get them. But the point is that if you're looking at a player who's played well over 200 NHL games in Hanifin's case and almost 400 in Lindholm's, and saying "these guys are just scratching the surface of what they're truly capable of", I'm raising an eyebrow. That's a long track record. They've had plenty of chances to prove they can give more.

I hope it pays off, but I don't like it right now.

[Wolfman]

How many 'elite' players like Hamilton have played on 3 teams by the age of 25? I'd love to know this stat. Not many come to mind, so there's obviously more to the story than anyone on here knows.

[Buff]

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Otto-matic

I have a feeling Tre is making a big splash on July 1st now. We have what like 24 Million in Cap Space?

Not that I have any qualms with this idea, but the Flames have a lot of business to take care of before we can talk about any amount of cap space.

- Hanifin needs a new contract, which will likely cost $4-5 million
- Lindholm needs a new contract, which will likely cost $4.5-5.5 million
- Jankowski needs a new contract, which will likely cost $1.5-2 million
- Kulak needs a new contract, which will likely cost $1-2 million
- Shore needs a new contract, which will likely cost $1-1.5 million
- Rittich and Gillies both need new contracts, which will both likely cost $0.75-1 million... but only one will count against the cap at a time

Then you have depth forwards like Hathaway, Versteeg, Stewart, and Stajan, one of whom will likely be signed for about $750-900k. That all adds up to a range of cap space between $13.5 million and $17.9 million. The latter would afford a couple of high-priced free agents for sure while the latter might accommodate one medium-high tier guy plus a lower-tier guy like Riley Nash, Derek Ryan, or Thomas Vanek.

[PepsiFree]

“People should trust the reaction they have before a situation has context” said nobody, ever.

I don’t know, call me crazy, but “Fox’s representation said he would have been hard/impossible to sign” sounds like KEY information when thinking “Hey, am I ok with Fox being traded?”

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

How home fans try to rationalize a lost hockey trade:.

And on the flip side, you're a Canucks fan trying to put a negative spin on it.

The truth lays much more in the middle.

[transplant99]

People here have been preaching patience with Sam Bennett because he is so young, he needs time, he will break out if we trade him etc etc....oh and because he was a 4th overall pick.

Hanifin is younger than Sam and plays a way way harder position to become good at, outyscored Sam last season. He was a 5th overall pick

Lindholm is a year older has already produced way more than Sam and again is a 5th overall pick.

Should we not all be super excited about these guys using the same parameters that so many apply to Bennett?