[POLL] Calgary Flames coaching change mega-thread—with poll

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by Locke

Okay and that makes a degree of sense.

But lets use this comparison:

Our goaltenders totally failed last season. What did he do? Jettisoned them and got new ones.

Our coach has totally failed. What has he done? Why the thumb twiddling?

We all know why, because as coaches go so tend to GMs, but thats not necessarily the case here.

Honestly, I dont have a problem with analyzing things, but much like the jury is out on Gulutzan due to advanced stats that get analyzed over and over again sometimes you just have to make a call.

I think it's harder to evaluate whether or not the coaching has failed. So, a more thorough analysis is required to determine if in fact the coaches should be fired. And if they have, why? Who replaces them? Are there any available coaches that would actually improve the team?

Mike Smith was signed in June... plenty of thumb twiddling before our goal tending situation was resolved.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by VilleN

I think it's harder to evaluate whether or not the coaching has failed. So, a more thorough analysis is required to determine if in fact the coaches should be fired. And if they have, why? Who replaces them? Are there any available coaches that would actually improve the team?

Mike Smith was signed in June... plenty of thumb twiddling before our goal tending situation was resolved.

There were several swings and misses prior to Smith being signed. Attempts at landing Bishop and trading for Fleury both fell through. He really didn't sit on that decision for that long.

[Incogneto]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

We traded Jiri for Jodi? Were there any picks involved?

Was on my phone....stupid autocorrect!

[Locke]

Originally Posted by VilleN

I think it's harder to evaluate whether or not the coaching has failed. So, a more thorough analysis is required to determine if in fact the coaches should be fired. And if they have, why? Who replaces them? Are there any available coaches that would actually improve the team?

Mike Smith was signed in June... plenty of thumb twiddling before our goal tending situation was resolved.

Its been 168 games. If you need more than that then I cant help you.

Hes either your guy or he isnt. Theres very little in between.

And if your concern is that theres nobody better then you promote from within (Huska).

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Locke

Okay and that makes a degree of sense.

But lets use this comparison:

Our goaltenders totally failed last season. What did he do? Jettisoned them and got new ones.

Our coach has totally failed. What has he done? Why the thumb twiddling?

We all know why, because as coaches go so tend to GMs, but thats not necessarily the case here.

Honestly, I dont have a problem with analyzing things, but much like the jury is out on Gulutzan due to advanced stats that get analyzed over and over again sometimes you just have to make a call.

You make so many subjective claims in there as if they are facts...

coach has totally failed
GM is twiddling his thumbs
advanced stats get over analzyed

None of those are givens or proven to be true.

If Gulutzan goes ... and I've said over and over that I think he should given his team's in game collapse rate, so I'm not defending him at this point ... it will be under whatever analysis or timing or procedure the Flames have set up.

Could be on the availability of who they want to hire.
He could have already been fired, but they haven't released it.
The request could be in to ownership to jettison a coach and have to pay his salary.
Maybe he's asked Gulutzan if he wants to stay as an assistant and he's mulling it over (stretch).

But to assume the man is just pacing and shaking in fear of making a decision is pretty weak in my opinion.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by Toonage

There were several swings and misses prior to Smith being signed. Attempts at landing Bishop and trading for Fleury both fell through. He really didn't sit on that decision for that long.

I know he didn't. It was a bit sarcastic, as June really isn't that long. And Tre could very well be looking at the coaching market right now, waiting to see who is available after the 1st round of the PO's is done... If it were me, I wouldn't want to fire GG without an obvious improvement lined up. I don't think Tre can experiment with another rookie coach so he has to find a somewhat proven NHL coach. Bill Peters seems to be a frontrunner, but he's no certainty. I doubt AV signs here, same with Sutter. So where does that leave Tre? Wait to see what happens with Trotz maybe? Carlyle (doubtful, and wouldn't want)?

So theoretically, if Tre fires GG today, Peters ends up signing with the Canes or Ottawa. AV signs with Dallas, Sutter isn't interested in Calgary or a HC job period (either or). WSH keeps Trotz... then where are we? BT hires another unproven, rookie coach. We have another 20 game adjustment period at the beginning of the season and then it's a gamble as to whether this new coach can handle an NHL gig and BT is definitely fired at the season's end?

If it were me, I'm holding on to GG for now, if an established NHL coach isn't available I would likely keep GG for next year and hire a new PP coach and look to improve the scoring on the roster. Firing GG right now is way too risky IMO... and I do want him fired, but I don't want him fired for some assistant coach, or AHL coach with limited experience. I'd rather roll the dice with a better PP coach and be content with the fact that our 5 v 5 play this season was actually quite good.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Bingo

You make so many subjective claims in there as if they are facts...

coach has totally failed
GM is twiddling his thumbs
advanced stats get over analzyed

None of those are givens or proven to be true.

If Gulutzan goes ... and I've said over and over that I think he should given his team's in game collapse rate, so I'm not defending him at this point ... it will be under whatever analysis or timing or procedure the Flames have set up.

Could be on the availability of who they want to hire.
He could have already been fired, but they haven't released it.
The request could be in to ownership to jettison a coach and have to pay his salary.
Maybe he's asked Gulutzan if he wants to stay as an assistant and he's mulling it over (stretch).

But to assume the man is just pacing and shaking in fear of making a decision is pretty weak in my opinion.

1. The coach has failed. (Making the playoffs seems like a given, he didnt = fail)
2. GM is twiddling his thumbs. No decisions have been made.
3. Advanced stats are totally over-analyzed. Our 'advanced stats' put us as one of the best teams in the league, and yet we didnt make the playoffs. So maybe the advanced stats are a huge load of hooey.

I didnt forget the question-mark on that sentence.

Who cares about the availability of who they want to hire? If GG is here or not does that change anything?

If he'd been fired already they'd have released it so he could look for new work.

If ownership is so cheap they just want to keep the guy thats already being paid then that pretty sends the message. Coaches are not immaterial, which is why they're being paid so much now.

I'm not saying that Treliving is pacing and shaking in fear of a decision, but 'evaluating everything' and taking forever to do it is very much the sign of analysis paralysis.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Could be on the availability of who they want to hire.
He could have already been fired, but they haven't released it.
The request could be in to ownership to jettison a coach and have to pay his salary.
Maybe he's asked Gulutzan if he wants to stay as an assistant and he's mulling it over (stretch).

It's all speculation at this point (at least for me, I don't know anything) but I find the possibility that Treliving is still trying to make the decision as more likely than any of the scenarios mentioned.

[Toonage]

Firing GG only when a replacement has been found and an agreement in place would be ideal. You're right VilleN, don't want to be left without a chair when the music stops.

[zamler]

Not firing Gulutzan 5 minutes after the season ended is called waffling. NY didn't waffle they did what they needed to do, and trust they are an organization that will attract top end coaches.

[colbym72]

Tyler @akaRCN
14s
. @SportsnetSpec tells @Bob_Stauffer that he's heard Glen Gulutzan will be back in CGY.


CP meltdown commence in 5....4....3....2....1....

[Toonage]

The NYR are indeed in a unique situation and likely have less to worry about when it comes to attracting and paying top end coaching, yes.

[Looch City]

Originally Posted by zamler

Not firing Gulutzan 5 minutes after the season ended is called waffling. NY didn't waffle they did what they needed to do, and trust they are an organization that will attract top end coaches.

We're attracting top end coaches our own way:

Come join us and if you're not a perfect fit, we'll think reallyyyy hard before firing you.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Firing GG only when a replacement has been found and an agreement in place would be ideal. You're right VilleN, don't want to be left without a chair when the music stops.

There's always one of the bright, hockey minds from CP that would not inconceivably at least run a better PP, if nothing else.

[Looch City]

Originally Posted by colbym72

Tyler @akaRCN
14s
. @SportsnetSpec tells @Bob_Stauffer that he's heard Glen Gulutzan will be back in CGY.


CP meltdown commence in 5....4......3......2......1.....

No. Nooo. No it can't be.

I can't handle another year of this. PLEASE.

[colbym72]

Originally Posted by Iggy City

No. Nooo. No it can't be.

I can't handle another year of this. PLEASE.

If its true, I can accept it barring that there are at least new assistants

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by zamler

Not firing Gulutzan 5 minutes after the season ended is called waffling. NY didn't waffle they did what they needed to do, and trust they are an organization that will attract top end coaches.

Easy when you're New York. We aren't. They are also beginning a rebuild/retool, they can afford to hire a rookie coach and gamble a bit. We don't have that luxury any more.

It isn't waffling... What does BT do after he fires GG and it turns out there isn't a bonafide, tried and true, NHL coach available? Hire another rookie and hope for better. Seems like a terrible plan, and IMO is a worse sin to commit than 'waffling'.

[Toonage]

1) Spec is not a Flames insider
2) The meltdown really occurs if Cameron is retained

[zamler]

Originally Posted by colbym72

Tyler @akaRCN
14s
. @SportsnetSpec tells @Bob_Stauffer that he's heard Glen Gulutzan will be back in CGY.


CP meltdown commence in 5....4....3....2....1....

[Incogneto]

Originally Posted by colbym72

Tyler @akaRCN
14s
. @SportsnetSpec tells @Bob_Stauffer that he's heard Glen Gulutzan will be back in CGY.


CP meltdown commence in 5....4....3....2....1....

no way..........no no no no no way.........