[News] Feaster and Weisbrod relieved of duties. Burke will hire a new GM

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

From what I recall from a media report at the time, Feaster was not allowed (by King and Edwards) to play hardball like that with Iginla. Because Iginla was such a special player in their hearts and in the hearts of all Calgarians, etc. etc.

Keep in mind as well, King also made the comment to McCowan on primetime sports that if he could have done it again, he would make Iginla sign a waiver. This was a few days after the trade.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

...What is my opinion, is that after Kevin Lowe and Mike Milbury, Feaster will go down as the worst GM in the NHL in the past decade...

Hilarious hyperbole. Steve Tambellini, Pierre Lacroix, Scott Howsen, Mike Keenan, Jaques Martin, Garth Snow, Mike Barnett, John Ferguson Jr., Brian Lawton, Les Jackson, Brett Hull, and Doug MacLean were all horribly bad at their jobs, and easily worse than Feaster.

[Enoch Root]

I don't have any problem with how the Iginla trade played out. Treating your best players with respect pays its own dividends in the long run.

And the difference in return on one trade is not going to be a big deal for the franchise in the long run (they could get lucky with one of the players, or conversely, if it turns out to be crappy, it will mean higher picks in the future).

The Bouwmeester and Regehr trades are a different issue though. I agree that the returns on those were less than optimal.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

It's a pretty big stretch to say that ROR is all on Feaster. Ken King's and ownership's hands are all over that which explains why he wasn't let go sooner. Infact, I would be so bold to say that Feaster pursued ROR by direct orders from ownership and wasn't the primary culprit.

Firing Feaster is an indictment of King. Not surprising it took another organizational hire to identify and do the dirty work on that little problem.

[calgARI]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

It's a pretty big stretch to say that ROR is all on Feaster. Ken King's and ownership's hands are all over that which explains why he wasn't let go sooner. Infact, I would be so bold to say that Feaster pursued ROR by direct orders from ownership and wasn't the primary culprit.

No question that others should share in the blame. That said, I don't expect the owners or president of a franchise to be as expert in league process, by-laws, and logistics than the General Manager. Sure, they all should have known, but the GM is supposed to be the foremost expert in hockey/league operations. Of all the people involved, the onus should have been on him to know.

[Tinordi]

Had we had competent management and an ownership that weren't acting like fan boys and nincompoops we would have traded Iginla a full two years earlier. Yes yes, it would have been painful, but with a solid communications and marketing effort along with some "intellectual honesty" you could have sold the rebuild then just as they are now.

Instead we not only got nothing for Iginla, we got nothing for a bunch of assets we traded to extend the closing hours on the country club for another couple seasons. We wouldn't have signed Tanguay to a ridiculous contract. We would have jettisoned Jackman at the peak of his value. We would have been patient with Regehr and traded him to a contender with injury issues at the deadline for much higher value.

But Feaster and Management reap what they sow. In desperately trying to get that playoff ticket revenue they actually put us three years further back.

That's my problem, and I don't rest most of that at Feaster's feet.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Hilarious hyperbole. Steve Tambellini, Pierre Lacroix, Scott Howsen, Mike Keenan, Jaques Martin, Garth Snow, Mike Barnett, John Ferguson Jr., Brian Lawton, Les Jackson, Brett Hull, and Doug MacLean were all horribly bad at their jobs, and easily worse than Feaster.

Just an opinion. Looking at the body of work for all of those guys and comparing it to Feaster, I can't see how any of those guys are any worse then Feaster. (Maybe Doug MacLean, forgot about him...... I'd call him and Feaster even)

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Let's not pretend that every GM in the current NHL, or most GMs or even a very small handful of GMs have had to trade a player like Jarome Iginla. The whole situation was pretty unique. I doubt that it would have changed much under the tenure of another GM.

The Dallas Stars traded their Captain and longest tenured player Brendan Morrow last deadline.

Had him sign a waiver to negotiate with the teams he'd be willing to go to.

Once different trade scenarios were established, Dallas management went back to Morrow to do him a solid by letting him pick, from the pre-established deals the organization had the legal justification to negotiate, and Morrow picked his destination.

King has even stated publicly that it was a mistake not follow basic trade protocol involving a NTC/NMC.

It's a matter of procedure. You get the waiver, you negotiate the deal. You call the league to get clarification before you submit the paper work.

Basic procedure.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Not that I agree, but even if you excuse that deal, how about how he botched the Regehr deal? Or Bouwmeester? Or even Brad Richards for Mike Smith+Jeff Halpern+Jussi Jokinen?

Considering only a crazy person would trade Smith for Richards straight up at this point, that deal doesn't look so bad.

The Regehr deal sucked (although not as apocalyptic as some seem to make it out to be) but other than that, the Bouwmeester and Iginla deals were pretty decent. I think people that have a negative few of those deals forget a few things: A) Iggy was a rental with a high price tag. No matter who player is, if you can't fit him in your structure you can't trade for him. I'm sure there were many teams that would have liked to look at adding Iggy but couldn't make it work. Boston deal was better than Pitt, but Iggy was given the right to choose, that's not on Feaster. B) Bouwmeester, again with a high price tag, and one that wasn't even gone at the end of the season. Not to mention that the season he was traded was his first actual good season in Calgary, his value was definitely not where it was when he was signed.

I'm not sold on Hanowski and haven't really seen much of Agostino so I can't really comment on him, I think Cundari could be a good tough dman ala Andrew Ference, and Berra has been decent so far in limited time.

If you want to trade stars for futures, you're not going to know the outcome for a least a few years. If you were expecting a hall of fame winger and a top pairing dman to be brought back in those trades your expectations were the problem, not Feaster.

[Super Nintendo Chalmers]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Can you provide any source? Link, who it was, etc.

It's not hard to imagine that scenario. It happened with Naslund in Vancouver and Sundin in TO. Of course, the inability to secure an agreement in principle to be traded from the players costed both teams.

[Mister Yamoto]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Hilarious hyperbole. Steve Tambellini, Pierre Lacroix, Scott Howsen, Mike Keenan, Jaques Martin, Garth Snow, Mike Barnett, John Ferguson Jr., Brian Lawton, Les Jackson, Brett Hull, and Doug MacLean were all horribly bad at their jobs, and easily worse than Feaster.

Jay Feaster has a huge advantage over most of those guys. He wrecked two teams. Not one. Not an easy accomplishment, almost impressive really.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by calgARI

Agree to disagree but saying I "don't seem capable" seems unnecessary. I don't think there is anything wrong with being unwilling to change my position on something.

Not really what I am getting at. There is a big difference between expecting or suggesting that someone change her/his opinion and asking him to recognise the pretty clear interpretative leaps that he makes in forming that opinion, and to make room in the absence of CLEAR evidence for the possibility of other options. I get that people do not like Feaster and have determined that overall he was not a good GM in his time with the Flames. It is both understandable and warranted, but to characterise him as utterly incompetent and to so casually dismiss his managerial successes is to construct a caricature. It exaggerates his flaws and his virtues to such an extreme as to produce a wholly disingenuous summary of the collective body of work.

Originally Posted by calgARI

You and others are welcome to disagree but as Feaster would say, it is "academic" at this point because the people making decisions felt he didn't do a good enough job to stay on.

I don't disagree, but as with all things in "academics", there is a whole lot of room between perfection and rubbish. I've said it before and I maintain that Feaster was a very average GM. I'm probably being a bit charitable, and am willing to concede that he was marginal or substandard, but that is a far, far cry from the summation of his tenure as an unmitigated disaster.

[nik-]

It sucks seeing Olli Maatta playing so well

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by nik-

It sucks seeing Olli Maatta playing so well

Giordano - Brodie
Bartkowski - Wideman
Maatta - Russell
Butler

That's a pretty good young D Group.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Giordano - Brodie
Bartkowski - Wideman
Maatta - Russell
Butler

That's a pretty good young D Group.

Well thanks for that FW ... jerk

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

came to the conclusion that Feaster (a) did not get full value for his trades, and (b) drafting was not acceptable,

I don't get this.

Last 3 drafts for each

Feaster:

2011
1) Baertschi (absolute best player at 13)
2) Granlund (looking good so far, will probably lead the heat in scoring)
4) Gaudreau (best and most exciting player in the NCAA...home friken run)
6) Brossoit (good enough to get us Smid)

2012
1) Jankowski and Sieloff for the #14 pick (Girgensons) jurys out but could still be the right move.
3) Gillies (best goalie in the NCAA. probably another home run)
4) Kulak (ppg dman who's 2nd in scoring for the Giants)
5) Culkin ( big great skating Dman whos 3rd in scoring for the Remparts)

2013
1) Monahan (no comment needed}
1) Poirier (3rd in scoring in the Q, Shinkaruk who?)
1) Klimchuk (who knows but looks good so far)
3) Kanzig (not sure, but is a beast)

Burke:

2010
1) traded pick for Kessel (Seguin, future superstar who has more points than Kessel this year at age 21)
2) Ross (looks like a dud LW, echl/ahl player with 7 points)
3) McKegg (soft 10 point AHL'er)
3) Olden (overager "21" still in junior)
4) Granberg (meh soft Dman with 2 points for the marlies)

2011
1) traded pick for Kessel (Hamilton) regular on the Bruins blueline
1) Biggs (looking like a brutal pick, 3 points for the Marlies)
3) Leivo (jurys out, 2 points for the leafs, back in the AHL)
4) Nilsson (dud?)
5) Cameranesi (small center in college, 9 points...dud)

2012
1) Rielly (good pick but 5th overall is hard to make a mistake)
2) Finn (looks ok,still in junior)
3) traded
4) traded
5) Toninato (college but probably a dud.)

I would take Feaster at the draft table 10 times out of 10.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by nik-

It sucks seeing Olli Maatta playing so well

Why stop at Maata? What about Girgensons, Hertl, and Laughton? Could have had those guys as well.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by T@T

I don't get this.

...

You'll have to ask Brian Burke then, not me. I actually like the draft picks.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The Dallas Stars traded their Captain and longest tenured player Brendan Morrow last deadline...

Brendan Morrow and his fixture in the landscape of Dallas is not even remotely comparable to the legacy that Iginla forged in Calgary. In the first place, one is a good bet to be a first-ballot hall-of-famer, while the other will never receive such consideration for entry as a player in his lifetime. In the second place, the status of each figure relative to the market is outrageously out of balance. Iginla the superstar established himself in a small market in which NHL hockey has no equal; Morrow was but one of a number of memorable players on a Dallas professional sports team that shares a market six times the size with other sports giants, the Dallas Cowboys, the Mavericks, and the Texas Rangers.

If this is really the best modern comparable that you can construct, then I rest my case.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Mister Yamoto

Jay Feaster has a huge advantage over most of those guys. He wrecked two teams. Not one. Not an easy accomplishment, almost impressive really.

Do you seriously believe that Jay Feaster "wrecked" the Flames?

Ridiculous.