2013/14 Prospect Stats & Updates Thread

[Enoch Root]

I found it interesting that the list someone recently did on NCAA players had Jankowski ahead of Arnold. He should be, IMO, but Arnold gets a lot of attention because he is on the big line and Jankowski doesn't typically get any attention outside of Flame followers.

As FDW said, Jankowski has way more upside than Arnold.

[Freeway]

My argument for Bill Arnold is that because of his size and playing style, he'd have to change his game the least to be an effective pro.

[Enoch Root]

yeah, that's probably true

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Freeway

My argument for Bill Arnold is that because of his size and playing style, he'd have to change his game the least to be an effective pro.

Just a question though. Arnold is having a similar season this year to Knight's senior year last year. Knight however is a bit bigger. Knight now has shown he can play pro and is currently in the NHL. So on what basis is Arnold rated ahead of him? Do you feel he's a much stronger skater? Because they seem extremely similar except that Knight is less of a question mark because he's already adapted to pro.

Not trying to attack you on this, just curious how Arnold shook out ahead of Knight given their similarity in style, NCAA production, etc.

[Freeway]

Arnold's won a national championship and ARGUABLY plays in a tougher conference. Also made a World Junior team. Little things like that put him slightly ahead of Knight for me.

[SeanCharles]

The way i see it is we have a clear cut top group of prospects but after that they are all so close it is a crap shoot.

1) Gaudreau
2) Baertschi
3) Poirier
4) Gillies
5) Granlund
6) Ortio
7) Klimchuk
8-15) Jankowski, Knight, Reinhart, Sieloff, Wotherspoon, Arnold, Ferland, Agostino

[Freeway]

The Flames have three clusters:
-Potential offensive difference-makers
-Goalies
-Two-way forwards

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Freeway

Arnold's won a national championship and ARGUABLY plays in a tougher conference. Also made a World Junior team.

So did Greg Nemisz... just sayin'.

I dunno... I'd be inclined to put Knight ahead of Arnold. Not that the above isn't true but Knight has actually made the NHL. I see them as pretty close in terms of projection but we don't have to wonder if Knight will ever make the NHL because he's done it, we don't have to wonder if his game will translate to the pro-ranks because he's done it. That counts for a bit more then Arnold's argueably superior NCAA resume.

[FlameZilla]

I'm not sure about Kenny Agostino being on the list ahead of Reinhart. They project to sb similar players, Reinhart has had a much better season offensively in the AHL, looked good in his most recent call-up and in my opinion should be a safe bet to be on the Flames full-time next season.

[Enoch Root]

I agree that Arnold is ahead of Knight (of where Knight was after last season)

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by fotze

What we need, is to have our prospects stop getting fataing injured all the time. It is just probably my myopia but Calgary seems to have the worst luck in this regard.

Pelawa - death
Renaud - death
Tkachuk - concussion
Chucko - concussion
Negrin - concussion
Sieloff - bizarre infection
Bouma - 2012/13 year off for injury
Ferland - major injury right when he started to heat up
Granlund now after just being called up
Ryan Howse - obesity
Daniel Ryder - crazy
Pelech - permainjured
Krahn - Knobby knees

Also, I can look at the Flames drafting for the 8000th time and it never ceases to amaze me how many misses are there.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/t...r00005090.html

Started off dark and macabre and ended up with the funniest long-term "injury" list I've ever read. Thank you Fotze, don't ever change.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Freeway

The Flames have three clusters:
-Potential offensive difference-makers
-Goalies
-Two-way forwards

You can almost include "Aggressive physical players" too - Kanzig, Ferland, Arnold, Poirier and Harrisson(though of course, some fall in different categories). Definitely agree - a lot of different types of players over the last few drafts, but each pick has been selected with an emphasis on IQ and character (still catches me off guard at how well-spoken some of these draftees are during interviews).

Originally Posted by Parallex

So did Greg Nemisz... just sayin'.

I dunno... I'd be inclined to put Knight ahead of Arnold. Not that the above isn't true but Knight has actually made the NHL. I see them as pretty close in terms of projection but we don't have to wonder if Knight will ever make the NHL because he's done it, we don't have to wonder if his game will translate to the pro-ranks because he's done it. That counts for a bit more then Arnold's argueably superior NCAA resume.

I think it is easy to put Knight ahead of Arnold just because Knight has transitioned to pro and was looking good in the AHL, and even looking decent thus far in his NHL stint.

I personally share Freeway's ranking between the two - I think Arnold is going to be a better two-way player at the NHL level. I think his aggressiveness is going to help him, thinks the game at a higher level, and is underrated for his offensive game.

You can make solid arguments for both. Comes down to preference or even a coin-flip IMO. Both solid prospects. They both are the type of players you want to see in your bottom 6.

edit: Added Harrisson (probably missing some others).

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Sarich put up more points as a junior than Sieloff... different eras and all. If Sieloff becomes a Sarich type player we should all jump up and down for joy as you said.

That's a really stupid comparison to look at junior offensive numbers for these two guys. First of all, it doesn't mean much for the type of game they play, and secondly, Sieloff had one shortened season of junior and didn't play as a 19 year old. Sarich had 4 years of junior and got almost half of his points as a 19 year old.

I think it's safe to say we don't know what we have in Sieloff until he plays a regular shift in the AHL for at least half a season. Until then, let's calm down with the comparisons and NHL potential.

[Freeway]

I really like Tim Harrison, but he's got the deck stacked against him.

[Freeway]

In terms of player evaluation, I usually look at how a couple factors and a couple questions:
-Where do they stack up on their team?
-Where do they stack up against their age peer group?
-What factors make them look better than they might actually be?
-How will they translate to a higher level?

[FlameZilla]

I'm glad that you've acknowledged Bill Arnold, Freeway. Provided he gets signed at the end of the season I think he'll transition to pro very easily.

With Stajan, Backlund, Monahan, Colborne, Granlund and Knight as the current group of centremen, do you see Arnold as someone who starts his career in the AHL as a centre, or someone who makes the Flames as a RH-shooting bottom 6 winger?

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

Originally Posted by Freeway

My take on the Top 10 Flames prospects. My conditions? Under 25, not yet an NHL regular.

http://thehockeywriters.com/top-ten-...medium=twitter

Good stuff Freeway.

IMO, this is a solidly accurate list. Only difference I would've made is take Agostino out of the top 10 and replace him with Wotherspoon. But even then you could debate it.

Thanks for the article!

[868904]

Originally Posted by FlameZilla

I'm not sure about Kenny Agostino being on the list ahead of Reinhart. They project to sb similar players, Reinhart has had a much better season offensively in the AHL, looked good in his most recent call-up and in my opinion should be a safe bet to be on the Flames full-time next season.

I don't think there's even a guarantee that Agostino gets signed by Burke.

We all know what he thought of the Iginla and Bouwmeester returns. Cundari and Berra are gone. Pens fans weren't really lamenting the loss of Agostino. It really was just Weisbrod loving the kid. Not sure if the rest of the hockey world has the same view of Agostino. As we all know, Weisbrod doesn't share the same view of players as the rest of the league.

There are plenty of point per game players in the NCAA.

[Enoch Root]

There is no way that Agostino should be ahead of Wotherspoon, IMO. Or Gillies, Ortio, Reinhart, Jankowski or Ferland, for that matter. (But different opinions are good.)

With respect to Wotherspoon, he has shown in the last few games that, if he isn't yet NHL-ready, he is damn close. And he is a 20 year old defenseman.

Granlund, Ortio and Wotherspoon have all demonstrated that they can be inserted into the lineup and not look out of place. That should move them all way up the list IMO. Though NHL readiness is only part of the equation - there is also upside potential. And on that metric, I would again put all of them ahead of Agostino. Just opinions, of course.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by 868904

I don't think there's even a guarantee that Agostino gets signed by Burke.

IMO Agostino will get signed for sure. Haven't seen him play, but when you read scouting reports etc about the kid, in addition to his scoring you'll often come across things like "competes in all three zones" and "plays a physical game". Decent size as well. We're pretty stacked at LW already, but you can always convert one to RW if needed.

Agostino plays a physical style of hockey, showing no fear when battling along the boards or in front of the net. Standing at 6-foot-1 and weighing in at 211-pounds, the Flanders, NJ native uses his body very effectively in every way. He can throw big hits, muscle bodies out of the way while battling for ice and is positionally sound. He has a solid hockey IQ, is a strong skater and an incredibly strong work ethic.

http://flames.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=91108

Sounds like a Hartley/Burke player to me. Yes, Cundari and Berra are gone, but there are reasons for that ... Cundari was underwhelming in Abbotsford this year (and the fact that he's undersized didn't help), and with Berra, it was just too good of an offer for Burke to pass. He already signed both Poirier and Klimchuk. and Hanowski is back in Calgary, so I doubt Burke is actively trying to get rid of the guys from the Iginla and Bouwmeester trades.

Plus, Agostinos offense is more impressive when you take a closer look at the numbers. Yale has even scored less goals than Providence, and the only other offensive contributor is Jesse Root.

Top 3 Goalscorers: Root 14, Agostino 14, Doherty 8
Top 3 Scorers: Root 34, Agostino 30, Young 18

Not much help for those two. The graduation of Miller and Laganiere really hit that team hard.