Calgary SSP Development Listing

[Muta]

Originally Posted by calf

I'd argue downtown being dead after 6pm is people leaving work and going home. +15s and street level are the same level of not busy. Most +15 level stores are closed by then anyways.

Well, obviously that too. But there's no retail (shopping, restaurants) for anyone to really delay going home over. People just move their business to peripheral neighbourhoods around the core after work, which really is unfortunate.

[JD]

That's pretty common in big cities, to have a commercial core that is dead on evenings and weekends, with an adjacent area with more character and activity during evenings and weekends. Every city I've been to is like that, even ones that would never be accused of not having a soul, places like San Francisco. Calgary's "detriment" is that the commercial core is significantly bigger than most cities its size.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by JD

That's pretty common in big cities, to have a commercial core that is dead on evenings and weekends, with an adjacent area with more character and activity during evenings and weekends. Every city I've been to is like that, even ones that would never be accused of not having a soul, places like San Francisco. Calgary's "detriment" is that the commercial core is significantly bigger than most cities its size.

Most big cities I've been to aren't like Calgary's after 6 PM. At all.

[Ozy_Flame]

I love Shinjuku and Shibuya in Tokyo at night. It is bustling with all types of people, primarily because of the sheer amount of retail and restaurants, as well as being central train hub locations.

Tokyo is composed of a bunch of mini downtowns. It's actually very enjoyable.

[Addick]

Originally Posted by calf

I'd argue downtown being dead after 6pm is people leaving work and going home. +15s and street level are the same level of not busy.

While it is definitely true that the CBD lacks a sufficient amount of people after 6pm, the CBD also lacks the amenities at street level that would accommodate a decent streetlife if their were enough people still downtown after 6pm.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Muta

Most big cities I've been to aren't like Calgary's after 6 PM. At all.

I agree.

The biggest downfall with downtown Calgary is the failure to monetize or capitalize on Stephen Avenue. Stephen Ave should be the go to destination in Calgary for entertainment and a night out. I'm not recommending it become a bar/club district (former Electric Ave) but it should provide some form of entertainment.

It should always be pedestrian only (with the exception of early morning hours for deliveries and such) and should offer various forms of entertainment including open air vendors, food trucks, street performances, etc. It is fairly good right now during the day (lunch hour) but has nothing going on in the evening. Olympic Plaza would be a great place for small concerts or performances from local artists and bands.

Stephen Ave is such a great location with the C-train running parallel and a block away. The location also offers easy access to thousands of tourists and business folks via the thousands of hotel rooms within 2 or 3 blocks.

On weekends, Stephen Ave should be host to various types of festivals such as Sun and Salsa (Kensington), Lilac Festival (4th street), Marda Gras (Marda Loop) etc. but the street does nothing. Over the last few years I can only recall two (maybe three) events down on Stephen Ave.

As an example of what Stephen Ave should be we can look at a city that is very similar to ours, Denver. The 16th Street mall in downtown Denver is very much like Stephen Ave with the exception that it is actually active and a destination during the evenings. I had a great time walking up and down 16th Street when I was there for a Flames game. Another example I can think of (maybe it is not a great example) is the Magnificent Mile in Chicago. As a third example it would be great to see Stephen Ave adopt some of the life that Freemont Street in Vegas has (obviously minus the casinos.)

[Ozy_Flame]

^^^ With the Stampede area with the casinos, bars, trendy restaurants and new developments that house inner city dwellers right on top in places like Victoria Park and East Village, I can see that area of town opening up to pedestrian traffic.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by JD

That's pretty common in big cities, to have a commercial core that is dead on evenings and weekends, with an adjacent area with more character and activity during evenings and weekends. Every city I've been to is like that, even ones that would never be accused of not having a soul, places like San Francisco. Calgary's "detriment" is that the commercial core is significantly bigger than most cities its size.

Exactly. I've stayed in San Francisco's financial district, and it's deader than a doornail after business hours.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Muta

Most big cities I've been to aren't like Calgary's after 6 PM. At all.

You've stayed in the financial district of big cities? Most people don't, because they suck.

I stayed with a friend for a week in New York City. He lived right by the financial district. It was totally dead at night.

Tourists never hang out in those areas, because there is nothing to do.

I would also argue that our downtown isn't really that "dead" besides Eau Claire, which was a huge failure. I was on Stephen Avenue at 2am during Stampede, and there were people everywhere. Last time I was down on a non-Stampede night, it wasn't as packed, but still people all over the streets.

[RM14]

I came accross a large collection of photos comparing diferent era's of Calgary's downtwon.

http://www.mailoutinteractive.com/In...spx?id=1459892

[polak]

It's a city of a million people with a massive downtown for its size. What do you expect?

17th Ave and any street with clubs and bars on it are pretty packed during the weekend.

Sorry guys. You don't live in Budapest.

(I Freaking LOVE Budapest)

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Muta

+15's are nice, and definitely warm in the winter, but I do agree they kill street life. Just look at Calgary's downtown after 6 PM - almost non-existent. Mostly all the shops are on the 2nd floor or mezzanine.

Take away the +15's, retailers move back to street level. Simple as that.

There isn't enough residential in our core. This is a commuter city. If there were no +15's and shops and restaurants moved back down to the streets, they would still shutter by 5 PM and everybody would go home. This won't change unless this city becomes more like Vancouver/Toronto and downtown is surrounded by or saturated by condo developments. There is no reason for a business to stay open if their customers have all fled home in their cars every evening and weekend to go hang out in parking lots and power centres.

There are short-term solutions in using Stephen Ave and Eau Claire more effectively (the latter is undergoing redevelopment) but nothing will change until we get a massive influx of residential so downtown businesses can have a captive audience.

[temple5]

What non coastal, non tourist 1 million person cities have a vibrant downtown after 6pm?

Tokyo is just a smidge larger than Calgary and isnt a fair comparison IMO

[lorenavedon]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

There isn't enough residential in our core. This is a commuter city. If there were no +15's and shops and restaurants moved back down to the streets, they would still shutter by 5 PM and everybody would go home. This won't change unless this city becomes more like Vancouver/Toronto and downtown is surrounded by or saturated by condo developments. There is no reason for a business to stay open if their customers have all fled home in their cars every evening and weekend to go hang out in parking lots and power centres.

There are short-term solutions in using Stephen Ave and Eau Claire more effectively (the latter is undergoing redevelopment) but nothing will change until we get a massive influx of residential so downtown businesses can have a captive audience.

agreed. The level of downtown condo development in this city is pathetic. We need like 10x the amount of inner city residential units than we currently have just to keep with demand. They need to build faster already. Look into more modern, cutting edge, modular building methods that can put up a condo tower in a few months not 10 years.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by temple5

What million person cities have a vibrant downtown after 6pm?

Tokyo is just a smidge larger than Calgary and isnt a fair comparison IMO

Apparently Indy has a vibrant downtown. I haven't been but it seems like it would be comparable to Calgary. From my experience I would say that Denver has a vibrant downtown and it is very similar to Calgary.

Fort Worth is supposed to be another city with a vibrant downtown.

[kevman]

I'd argue that Calgary's downtown is becoming more and more vibrant every year - just not the commercial business disctrict.

Ever been to Wall St. when the businesses closes and the tourists head uptown for dinner? Crickets.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Apparently Indy has a vibrant downtown. I haven't been but it seems like it would be comparable to Calgary. From my experience I would say that Denver has a vibrant downtown and it is very similar to Calgary.

Fort Worth is supposed to be another city with a vibrant downtown.

I think the point Hulk makes is probably still valid.
Do those places really have vibrant business districts, or do they have vibrant comercial districts that are adjacent to downtown?

In my experience most cities are definitely the latter, Calgary included.
No one will ever want to go hang out on 5th ave no matter what because that space is dominated by large scale employers, not trendy comercial space, and it never will be.

Calgary does have some pretty vibrant areas rigth next do downtown, 17th ave, Mission, Kensington, Inglewood, Stephen Ave (the exception, as it actually is right in downtown). Are they right downtown? Nope, but they are close enough that I would think most tourists would say Downtown Calgary has some pretty cool places.

I would say Calgary is pretty comparable to most cities I've been to. Almost no cities have great vibrant areas intermingled among the econonmic engine type core, but those areas are generally surrounded by the kind of places people want to be and hang out, and will still refer to as downtown.

[polak]

Oh come on, don't you know? La Defense is the place to be in Paris after 6 pm

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Calgary does have some pretty vibrant areas rigth next do downtown, 17th ave, Mission, Kensington, Inglewood, Stephen Ave (the exception, as it actually is right in downtown). Are they right downtown? Nope, but they are close enough that I would think most tourists would say Downtown Calgary has some pretty cool places.

I would not call any of those places vibrant. I've taken people to these streets from out of town and their comments are: "what is special about this street?".

[polak]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

I would not call any of those places vibrant. I've taken people to these streets from out of town and their comments are: "what is special about this street?".

Faux-Urban.