Sorry, to be clear, you’re throwing the word “naive” around while:
- suggesting fascism hasn’t existed for 50 years
- suggesting anyone who uses the word “fascist” is a excitable supporter of the left
- suggesting fascism has a concrete definition (you couldn’t produce)
- rejecting expert opinions on fascism in favour of your personal armchair
- suggesting we can make new political terms up, after suggesting “neo-fascism” was just “couching it” and being unable to process any definition or evolution of fascism past WW2
Never change lol
It’s cute that you expect me to put more effort into substantiating my opinions here than posters like you and rube do.
But I have to admit, I did get a kick out of novelist Umberco Eco being cited as an expert on fascism.
Here’s a discussion of whether fascism is a useful framework to understand Trump by some people who actually are experts in the field:
I am just so excited for when the Liberals effectively are wiped off the map this election just to see the meltdown here. Some people on this board lost it with the provincial election results, I can only imagine what happens when their demigod JT loses.
It’s cute that you expect me to put more effort into substantiating my opinions here than posters like you and rube do.
I don’t expect you to put more effort in, I actually just think it’s funny toying with you to the point where the vast chasm between your perception of your own intellectualism and what you actually have to offer in a discussion widens to the point of parody.
Like this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by CliffFletcher
It’s also pretty insulting to people who have lived under actual fascism.
Followed by this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by CliffFletcher
But I have to admit, I did get a kick out of novelist Umberco Eco being cited as an expert on fascism.
In light of this information:
Quote:
Eco was born on 5 January 1932 in the city of Alessandria, in Piedmont in northern Italy. The spread of Italian Fascism throughout the region influenced his childhood. At the age of ten, he received the First Provincial Award of Ludi Juveniles after responding positively to the young Italian fascist writing prompt of "Should we die for the glory of Mussolini and the immortal destiny of Italy?"
…
Ur-Fascism” or “Eternal Fascism: Fourteen Ways of Looking at a Blackshirt” (in Italian: Il fascismo eterno, or Ur-Fascismo) is a renowned essay authored by the Italian philosopher, novelist, and semiotician Umberto Eco. First published in 1995, this influential essay provides an analysis of fascism, a definition of fascism, and discusses the fundamental characteristics and traits of fascism. Drawing on Eco's personal experiences growing up in Mussolini's Italy and his extensive research on fascist movements, the essay offers his insights into the nature of fascism and its manifestations.
I don’t know, man. Suggesting a revered philosopher who grew up under fascism and who wrote a renowned essay on fascism isn’t an “actual expert” seems… kind of insulting to people who lived under fascism
But no, you’re right, lemme see what that Slate podcast you just found has to say. Still waiting on that concrete definition you said existed. You got this, big guy, just a copy and paste will do, since you know it so well!
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The more I see of PP the more he seems to me to just be the spitting image of Trudeau in the populist right wing mirror. I have no real sense that he believes in any particular rhetoric or ideology, however characterized, except to the extent it scores him points. He'll get as close to that crazy line as he thinks he can until the net result is fewer votes. So no, I don't really expect him to embody some grasping fascistic power grab a la Trump. There's no there there beyond a desire to form a government for as long as he can ultimately hang on, and the Schtick will wear thin pretty quickly once he's in office I would think.
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About that spitting image, where 'image' matters . . . . Was Trudeau seen hanging out and taking pictures with extreme far lefties? Because PP has that with Diagolon and seems to have no problem with it.
I am just so excited for when the Liberals effectively are wiped off the map this election just to see the meltdown here. Some people on this board lost it with the provincial election results, I can only imagine what happens when their demigod JT loses.
16 months to find your safe spaces!
The irony here is that the UCP turned out to be such an embarrassment so fully and immediately that the majority of people who voted for them fled to their safe spaces and haven’t been heard from since. The only vocal supporters left are basically the who’s who of Alberta’s dumbest.
I truly hope this goes better for conservatives than that. I don’t think they can take another round of embarrassment like that.
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I am just so excited for when the Liberals effectively are wiped off the map this election just to see the meltdown here. Some people on this board lost it with the provincial election results, I can only imagine what happens when their demigod JT loses.
16 months to find your safe spaces!
So many possible gifs and memes to respond to this post, but I'll stick with a classic
Seriously wtf are you talking about? I doubt you could find 7 posts supporting Trudeau on here in the last 7 months. Maybe not even in the last 7 years. Danielle Smith is still a monster, though. I've clearly 'lost it'.
Only 7% of people who voted for them have a negative view now of the party leader . And they are still leading the polls and despite what you wish , almost certainly will win the next election unless there is a massive economic downturn .
So people aren’t embarrassed or hiding . This province voted for a party and those who voted for them as basically happy with what they voted for.
It’s the NDP voters who are angry and scared of the party , just like they were before the vote. And you’re purple / orange knight in shining armor Nenshi has actually lost the party support !
I can’t wait to see your heads explode when provincially and federally there are conservative parties in power .
Remember the key to enacting change is to spend hours a day on a message board serial thanking each others posts and calling anyone with different political views then you names!
It’s working well provincially , federally , and in just about every country in the world. (I forgot also finding other like minded people on Twitter and Reddit who agree with your already formed views is key ! Other people with nothing better to do with their time then stole each others fears)
The only place you and team left are winning in reality is in the “thanks” counts on this board . Go out into the real business world . Leave the safety of the internet - you will find that your perceived biases don’t match watch the majority of the province believes - whether you like it or not
So many possible gifs and memes to respond to this post, but I'll stick with a classic
Seriously wtf are you talking about? I doubt you could find 7 posts supporting Trudeau on here in the last 7 months. Maybe not even in the last 7 years. Danielle Smith is still a monster, though. I've clearly 'lost it'.
You don’t think there is going to be a melt down when the cons win Federally ? Hahaha ok - save this post and we will review the reaction in 16 months
Only 7% of people who voted for them have a negative view now of the party leader . And they are still leading the polls and despite what you wish , almost certainly will win the next election unless there is a massive economic downturn .
So people aren’t embarrassed or hiding . This province voted for a party and those who voted for them as basically happy with what they voted for.
It’s the NDP voters who are angry and scared of the party , just like they were before the vote. And you’re purple / orange knight in shining armor Nenshi has actually lost the party support !
I can’t wait to see your heads explode when provincially and federally there are conservative parties in power .
Remember the key to enacting change is to spend hours a day on a message board serial thanking each others posts and calling anyone with different political views then you names!
It’s working well provincially , federally , and in just about every country in the world. (I forgot also finding other like minded people on Twitter and Reddit who agree with your already formed views is key ! Other people with nothing better to do with their time then stole each others fears)
The only place you and team left are winning in reality is in the “thanks” counts on this board . Go out into the real business world . Leave the safety of the internet - you will find that your perceived biases don’t match watch the majority of the province believes - whether you like it or not
This was good for a chuckle. Not that you’re wrong on all of your points, but the sensationalism is something to behold.
“You’re heads are going to explode”
What are the people you’re describing gonna do? Put up stickers that say “#### poilievre” on their cars and obsess over him daily?
Like seriously, you’re acting as if 60% of the votes go to the party you’re hoping will win it’ll be some sort of indictment on everyone else who doesn’t vote for them and their views.
Want proof of how flawed that logic is? You didn’t abandon being a conservative supporter just because they lost elections.
This country and the people living here need balance and sensibility, not this useless divisive rhetoric. Most people agree on 90% of issues and the rest gets distorted based on whoever is padding the wallets of the feuding parties.
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Only 7% of people who voted for them have a negative view now of the party leader . And they are still leading the polls and despite what you wish , almost certainly will win the next election unless there is a massive economic downturn .
So people aren’t embarrassed or hiding . This province voted for a party and those who voted for them as basically happy with what they voted for.
It’s the NDP voters who are angry and scared of the party , just like they were before the vote. And you’re purple / orange knight in shining armor Nenshi has actually lost the party support !
I can’t wait to see your heads explode when provincially and federally there are conservative parties in power .
Remember the key to enacting change is to spend hours a day on a message board serial thanking each others posts and calling anyone with different political views then you names!
It’s working well provincially , federally , and in just about every country in the world. (I forgot also finding other like minded people on Twitter and Reddit who agree with your already formed views is key ! Other people with nothing better to do with their time then stole each others fears)
The only place you and team left are winning in reality is in the “thanks” counts on this board . Go out into the real business world . Leave the safety of the internet - you will find that your perceived biases don’t match watch the majority of the province believes - whether you like it or not
I don’t think someone who whines about cancel culture and how many thanks other people get on a message board is allowed to finger wave at people for being too “online.”
In the real world, big boys and girls don’t care about things like that. Maybe you’ll join us, eventually.
What are the people you’re describing gonna do? Put up stickers that say “#### poilievre” on their cars and obsess over him daily?
Just the funniest projection ever.
The same group of people who have propped up an whole industry of “#### Trudeau” merchandise because it’s their entire identity, who you regularly find blocking borders or hanging out by the side of the highway looking for attention, whose only goal is sticking it to someone else and absolutely begging for them to suffer and get as upset about they are about… everything, who talk about “the real business world” while complaining that the government isn’t giving them aid fast and easy enough for them…
…think that people’s heads are going to explode when conservatives take power, despite it happening five years ago and “team left” going about their business while “team right” continues with all of the above lol. Hell, their guys were still protesting COVID restrictions up until a few months ago. Anyone want to tell them when those ended?
Almost too sad to be funny. Buuuuuuut… no, still funny.
I’ll give Jason14 a lil’ honk on the way out to Banff next time. Seems like he needs a pick-me-up.
Marc Garneau, who I thought would have been a very good Liberal leader, and should have been appointed as the Minister of Defence releases his autobiography.
OTTAWA - Former foreign affairs minister Marc Garneau says Canada has lost its standing in the world under the tenure of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, whom he criticizes as an ill-prepared leader who prioritizes politics and makes big pronouncements without any follow-through."I believe Justin Trudeau has overestimated Canada's impact abroad," Garneau writes in his autobiography, "A Most Extraordinary Ride: Space, Politics and the Pursuit of a Canadian Dream," which is scheduled to be released in October by Penguin Random House.
While much of the book is a trip down memory lane for Garneau's pre-politics career in the military and as an astronaut, the final third is devoted to his time as a member of Parliament.
Quote:
After the Liberals came to power in 2015, Garneau served in Trudeau's cabinet for six years, more than five of those as the minister of transport. He spent the final nine months as the minister of foreign affairs, until Trudeau dropped him from cabinet completely after the 2021 election.
In his book, Garneau acknowledges being blindsided by that decision — one he says Trudeau never explained.
He makes it clear that he and Trudeau had little in common outside of their "Liberal values," and that the two were not close.
Quote:
Another thing he makes clear: Garneau thinks Trudeau did not value the importance of a foreign affairs minister, and isn't very good at international relations.
"Unfortunately Canada's standing in the world has slipped, in part because our pronouncements are not always matched by a capacity to act or by actions that clearly demonstrate that we mean what we say," Garneau writes. "We are losing credibility."
He describes Trudeau's trips to China in 2016 and 2017, and to India in 2018, before his tenure as foreign minister, as "not successful."
The two China trips failed to kick-start free-trade talks with China, and Trudeau was criticized at the time for trying to bring non-trade issues to the table in talks with the Chinese government. That included pushing on human rights, which did not go over well in Beijing.
The India trip's failures were well-documented, including the embarrassment of inadvertently offering a reception invitation to a man convicted of trying to assassinate an Indian cabinet minister in Canada in 1986.
"We were not properly prepared," Garneau said of the three foreign visits.
"At a fundamental level, we did not understand who we were meeting. We thought we could seduce and were surprised it didn't turn out that way. Gone was the clear-eyed approach of a prime minister like Jean Chrétien, who always knew with whom he was dealing and who forged pragmatic alliances with world powers."
Quote:
The ex-astronaut is not the first former Trudeau cabinet minister to pen a memoir that lambastes the prime minister. In 2023, former finance minister Bill Morneau released his own memoir, which criticized Trudeau for making mostly unilateral decisions and putting politics ahead of policy.
Both of them describe a concentration of power in the Prime Minister's Office that did not improve despite Trudeau's promises to decentralize when he came into office in 2015.
Garneau writes that when he was in charge of transport, Trudeau didn't seem to have much interest in the file at all. When he moved to foreign affairs, he hoped the prime minister would be more interested in seeking out his input on issues.
But, Garneau says, he did not.
He writes that Trudeau only called upon him once to offer advice, at a meeting with then-ambassador to China Dominic Barton, in a discussion about the ongoing plight of the two Michaels.
"The prime minister's aloofness led me to conclude that he did not consider my advice useful enough to want to hear from me directly, relying instead on his staff," Garneau recounts.
"I found this disappointing to say the least. The expectation was that communication between him and me would be via the (Prime Minister's Office), and so consequently I never knew what information, if any, reached him."
The Trudeau government, Garneau contends, is overall too reactive and ill-prepared.
Quote:
Garneau was the fourth of five people who have headed up Canadian foreign policy over the 8 1/2 years Trudeau has been prime minister.
"Our allies could logically question whether Canada attached sufficient importance to this portfolio, and they did," Garneau writes.
During every one of his introductory calls with counterparts, he says he was told they hoped he'd last longer than his predecessors, something he describes as "a not so subtle message."
It didn't happen.
In terms of former Liberal cabinet member's Garneau is the fourth to come out against Trudeau recently.
Bill Morneau and Catherine McKenna have both come out recently. JWR's book was highly critical as well.
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I am just so excited for when the Liberals effectively are wiped off the map this election just to see the meltdown here. Some people on this board lost it with the provincial election results, I can only imagine what happens when their demigod JT loses.
16 months to find your safe spaces!
Modern conservatism in a nutshell. No concern with policy, ideology, etc. The only thing that matters is owning the libs.
EDIT: And as usual with conservatives, resorting to lame jokes about "safe spaces" that were tired in 2017. Are any of you guys actually capable of coming up with fresh, original material?
Last edited by rubecube; 07-05-2024 at 01:02 PM.
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The more I see of PP the more he seems to me to just be the spitting image of Trudeau in the populist right wing mirror. I have no real sense that he believes in any particular rhetoric or ideology, however characterized, except to the extent it scores him points. He'll get as close to that crazy line as he thinks he can until the net result is fewer votes. So no, I don't really expect him to embody some grasping fascistic power grab a la Trump. There's no there there beyond a desire to form a government for as long as he can ultimately hang on, and the Schtick will wear thin pretty quickly once he's in office I would think.
He really is a terrible candidate.
Why? Because on the immigration issue he literally waited till it became so painfully obvious that our current immigration policies don't work until he decided to say they don't work.
Up till then he was okay with just letting people say Trudeau immigration policies bad.
Marc Garneau, who I thought would have been a very good Liberal leader, and should have been appointed as the Minister of Defence releases his autobiography.
In terms of former Liberal cabinet member's Garneau is the fourth to come out against Trudeau recently.
Bill Morneau and Catherine McKenna have both come out recently. JWR's book was highly critical as well.
The list just keeps piling up. The problem I am really having is that I support a lot of the legislation put forward and the promises given by the Liberal party, but when it comes to actual execution they are a #### show. And while I support the NDP and am glad what they have been able to push with the confidence agreement, much like Trudeau, Singh seems more concerned about playing politics than actually getting to the root of issues.
I really don't see Trudeau as the big bad that most conservatives do, most of his gaffes and scandals have seemed like lack of critical thinking as opposed to maliciousness. And the last few years just seems like Ralph Wiggum is in charge.
A Canadian hero like Marc Garneau deserved more from the Liberal party as he seemed like he really wanted to work for the betterment of the country and would have made a much stronger leader than Trudeau.
So while I despise the CPC and all of the rhetoric and idiocy that comes from them, the fact that so many Cabinet Ministers who are supposed to be the top representatives continually leave with nothing but disgust with Trudeau, it really does show a major change is needed. In 2015 he may have been just not ready, in 2024 he is well past his best before date, and the Liberals need to figure out how to ditch him before they end up like 2011.
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Fuzz - "He didn't speak to the media before the election, either."
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