Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote, Formenton charged with sexual assault

[traptor]

Sounds like a BS statement to me to save face.


Ofcourse they had no formal knowledge of pending charges coming in. It's not like the london police or prosecution is going to give them a heads up.

It doesn't mean they didn't have any idea on how Dube was involved in this incident.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

The slandering of the team because of the way they handled this needs to stop.

Oh, don't you worry! Even with the statement, I'm sure people will still stick to what they "believe".

[Ashasx]

Ultimately I think it was a PR blunder. Either way, that's probably all we're going to hear about this until Dube's contract is terminated.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

I haven't read through the entire thread, do we have any proof yet that the Flames are lying?

I think I'll take them at their word for now. I just can't see an organization that took Kylington's mental health as seriously as they did all of a sudden when it comes to Dube just throw out some made up statement about mental health all willy nilly.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by traptor

Sounds like a BS statement to me to save face.


Ofcourse they had no formal knowledge of pending charges coming in. It's not like the london police or prosecution is going to give them a heads up.

It doesn't mean they didn't have any idea on how Dube was involved in this incident.

Do you have any proof that Dube wasn't suffering from a mental health crisis before the Flames were aware of what was to come?

If so, please share. If the Flames are lying I'd like to know.

[liamenator]

Oh yes, poor Flames. How could anyone in the organization have possibly known? What a shame that they have been taken advantage of in this way. Poor professional sports team had the wool pulled over its eyes. Never mind that it was an open secret around the league that their player was involved and accused.

Give me a break. This was a massive PR blunder. There were no legal grounds to cite mental health in the initial release. It's a horrible look, and the organization is now being subject to criticism and ridicule that it deserves.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

I haven't read through the entire thread, do we have any proof yet that the Flames are lying?

I think I'll take them at their word for now. I just can't see an organization that took Kylington's mental health as seriously as they did all of a sudden when it comes to Dube just throw out some made up statement about mental health all willy nilly.

I'm still going with my interpretation based on their wording that this was not some choreographed statement between the Flames and Dube. They insinuated that he is under care in their statement, which most on social media completely ignored.

I'm willing to bet that there was an episode with Dube that ended with an admittance to hospital that was then relayed to the Flames with a "He is taking a leave effective immediately for mental health, he's under care", to which the Flames released a statement explaining the situation as they had it relayed.

[Mr.Coffee]

One part I just can’t stop thinking about is how in the beginning there was not enough evidence to pursue charges but, then later and due to public pressure, now all of a sudden there are.

Is it a change in position of the victim that is now willing to testify in open court and be cross examined?

Based on what we know, I suspect the case rests on credibility of the victim and that there isn’t any physical evidence. If there is physical evidence, why wasn’t this pursued back in the beginning and only now? And if the case rests on credibility of the victim, this could be a tough case to prove. I believe based on limited research similar cases are like <8% conviction rate if it’s simply a testimony case (at least in the US).

Wondering if others with more expertise (MBates looking at you) could weigh in on this piece and help me out. I don’t get what changed from then to now. Is it possible that at the outset she was not prepared to testify, but now is?

[ah123]

Not sure if this was posted already

I've heard that some of the players were directed by their lawyers not to tell their teams any details about potential charges. Not sure how this played out in Calgary, but something to keep in mind.


https://x.com/emilymkaplan/status/17...398583707?s=20

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by ah123

Not sure if this was posted already

I've heard that some of the players were directed by their lawyers not to tell their teams any details about potential charges. Not sure how this played out in Calgary, but something to keep in mind.


https://x.com/emilymkaplan/status/17...398583707?s=20

It was mentioned, some people just chose to ignore it.

[Galakanokis]

Maybe the discovery of the epic cover up of sexual abuse from Hockey Canada is why the case was reopened? I mean, the initial investigation is proving to be nothing more than half assed at best.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by jayswin

I'm still going with my interpretation based on their wording that this was not some choreographed statement between the Flames and Dube. They insinuated that he is under care in their statement, which most on social media completely ignored.

I'm willing to bet that there was an episode with Dube that ended with an admittance to hospital that was then relayed to the Flames with a "He is taking a leave effective immediately for mental health, he's under care", to which the Flames released a statement explaining the situation as they had it relayed.

Yep, definitely a possibility. Him having a mental health crisis and the Flames being aware where there's smoke there's probably fire in regards to charges can both be true.

It's too bad so many think the Flames just made up the mental health care comment so quickly.

[Thunderball]

Also, for those hoping for a quick contract termination, it is likely a much stronger argument that there was both conduct unbecoming that harms the reputation of the Flames and the NHL and a deliberate misrepresentation to the team as to the reason for his absence, than just the charge alone…

[traptor]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Do you have any proof that Dube wasn't suffering from a mental health crisis before the Flames were aware of what was to come?

If so, please share. If the Flames are lying I'd like to know.

I never said he wasn't.
Infact I'm sure he was. Putting myself in his shoes, I would be having a full on mental breakdown.


Doesn't change the fact that I think this statement is BS lawyer speak to save face. Like I said, ofcourse they wouldn't be formally aware of the pending charges. This doesn't mean they had no idea about his involvement.

They made a PR blunder and are trying to save face. That's it. There's no big conspiracy. It's moreso ineptitude.

[Ashasx]

Even if the Flames were completely kept in the dark, I don't think including 'mental health' in the Flames statement was appropriate.

There were indications back in November that the names were about to drop - and the only thing stopping them at that point was a Hockey Canada appeal.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1724502869762535611

The Flames may not have known with certainty that Dube would be charged, but they knew he was involved in the investigation.

To include mental health in the statement just reflects incredibly poor foresight and PR by the organization.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by traptor

I never said he wasn't.
Infact I'm sure he was. Putting myself in his shoes, I would be having a full on mental breakdown.


Doesn't change the fact that I think this statement is BS lawyer speak to save face. Like I said, ofcourse they wouldn't be formally aware of the pending charges. This doesn't mean they had no idea about his involvement.

They made a PR blunder and are trying to save face. That's it. There's no big conspiracy. It's moreso ineptitude.

So if it's possible there was a mental health crisis and that's why he left the team at that moment how is the statement wrong?

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Yep, definitely a possibility. Him having a mental health crisis and the Flames being aware where there's smoke there's probably fire in regards to charges can both be true.

It's too bad so many think the Flames just made up the mental health care comment so quickly.

Have people been arguing that it's made up or just that maybe it wasn't the best to frame the leave as a mental health leave with the potential this was coming down the pipeline (confirmed or not at that time).

I think most have acknowledged that Dube likely does have some mental health issues he'd be struggling with right now due to the circumstances, just didn't seem overly smart of the organization to frame the leave that way.

I do think the best argument about the Flames post was that the Flames didn't offer any real sympathy or well wishes to Dube in their initial post (with the comparisons to Laine's press release) ...which is probably a sign there was more going on but maybe they were pressured into framing it that way.

[Mathgod]

nvm

[trackercowe]

It's interesting that Carter Hart is in the final year of his three year 11.937 million dollar contract. He's an RFA after this season. I wonder if the Flyers management knew about the allegations, which is why he was only signed to a bridge contract. You gotta think he's a 6+ million dollar goalie in today's market.

Edit: Ironically all four players contracts expire at the end of this season and will become restricted free agents. None of them are on long term deals.

[Red Potato Standing By]

They really only have what Dube tells them( anything else up till the time charges are actually laid is just speculation) and if you believe he is capable of sexual assault then it shouldn’t be a big leap that he is capable of lying to the team.