Ongoing thread for Neal/Lucic discussion

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by savardandjokinen

Lucic is so useless and overpaid and slow this trade is so bad. I know Neal is all of that but Lucic is worse at all of that

Lucic is worse at all that but somehow has better stats?

[Karl]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

For the Flames I am not convinced it is a worse move on the ice. Neal was not a fit here. He wasn’t fitting in the top 6 and is useless in the bottom 6. At least Lucic can be a bottom 6 guy that hits people. For the Flames current roster there wasn’t really a spot for Neal and now Lucic eats up an expensive spot that used to be filled by Hathaway.

Problem is Lucic can now only hit people effectively at this point when they're not moving or hardly moving at all because he is too damn slow to actually hit people effectively otherwise.

[I_H8_Crawford]

Please stop trying to use hits as some sort of valid stat. Hits, like shots are very subjective and change with each arena. I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out Oilers stats guys were inflating hits to try to make him look better to their fans. "See? He's not useless! Look how many hits he had! Trust the Oilers braintrust!"

[Flash Walken]

The worst part about this trade is that the flames are still paying more than 5 million a year to a 4th liner when they still have a gaping hole that could be filled with a 5 million dollar winger.

The extra 600k is something, maybe even crucial, but 6 extra million in space is what the flames need.

Other than that who cares, it's not moving the needle.

It's all about timing. If there was a deal there during the season the flames should've taken it.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by I_H8_Crawford

Please stop trying to use hits as some sort of valid stat. Hits, like shots are very subjective and change with each arena. I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out Oilers stats guys were inflating hits to try to make him look better to their fans. "See? He's not useless! Look how many hits he had! Trust the Oilers braintrust!"

I can definitely see how you'd want to believe that. It would make your foaming at the mouth tirade a little less ridiculous if all his recorded hits were conjured up out of thin air.

[Mr.Coffee]

This is a bad trade.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by flamesgod

The guy had 250 hits last year and he can’t hit effectively anymore? You’re getting a little carried away.

Oh great!

I'd bet that over 50% of those hits weren't all that impactful despite his massive size because of his ####ty skating ability. So because of that, he wouldn't connect all that well with a lot of those hits.

[topfiverecords]

Most of his hits are of the behind the play variety. Like his stalking attack of TB’s Joseph away from the puck that amazingly he didn’t get suspended for.

[I_H8_Crawford]

Only way Flames break even in this trade is if Lucic can magically get Gaudreau, Monahan, and pretty much the rest of the team to grow some balls and man up when games get tighter and tougher at the end of the season and in playoffs

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The worst part about this trade is that the Oilers are still paying more than 5 million a year to a 4th liner when they still have a gaping hole that could be filled with a 5 million dollar winger.

The extra 600k is something, maybe even crucial, but 6 extra million in space is what the Oilers need.

The reason this quote works equally well for the Oilers, is the reason neither player could return the cap relief that both teams would have preferred.

[I_H8_Crawford]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I can definitely see how you'd want to believe that. It would make your foaming at the mouth tirade a little less ridiculous if all his recorded hits were conjured up out of thin air.

So you're saying hits aren't subjective arena to arena?
The fact that this one unreliable stat is being thrown out to suggest the flames didn't get raped is pretty sad.

Lucic is a bad player on the worst contact in the NHL.

Neal is a bad player on a bad contact.

Flames get no tangible bonus to taking on Lucic outside of saving the owners some cash.

[N-E-B]

I do find it funny that Oiler fans think adding salary and taking on James Neal is a win. If anything they got worse purely because of their cap.

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

His body language is very nervous. He knew this wouldn't be a popular move and probably would've preferred to not talk about it.

Not really saying much about the players themselves either. Leads me to believe this was more about getting Neal off the team than about Lucic, but he obviously can't say that.

You are right. He looked pretty nervous. I thought Tre would be GM for years and years, but now I'm not sure.

Obviously Tre cares about the optics of Neal resurrecting, or he wouldn't have asked for the attempted face saving conditional 3rd. Why not instead factor in underperformance by Lucic by not overpaying?! He has value...no doubt, but lets not overpay for it like the oilers did.

Lucic was an immovable joke. Edmonton was stuck with a contract that was toxic. There were rumours that McDavid might ask to leave town because they couldn't get a supporting cast together. Lucic scored in the opening game this past season.....and then went 41 games without a goal. Look back a little further to the latter part of the 17/18 season: he got one goal in a 46 game span. So by my count, 2 goals in 87 games. There is more to this story that we all know, but that is telling enough.

We have enough scoring, but the flames maybe need grit. Tre is desperate for it. He thought he had Kadri, but that slipped through his fingers. Colorado smoked us regardless of grit. And now they have Kadri, but whatevs.

Maybe Lucic has that gritty/tough something or other to offer. But Edmonton was desperate....effing DES-PER-ATE to get rid of his contract. We all smelled it in their syphilitic water. How does Tre not get a better deal?

The only thing that makes sense? Neal was also toxic.

I thought I was watching a guy just have a bad year. He had many good ones before it. He said the right things about getting into shape this offseason with Gary Roberts.

Tre is known for due diligence, but everyone can see he made a mistake with signing Neal. Maybe he shrugged off Neal's reputation for a bitchy attitude and he never foresaw that it would matter. And then the black swan event happens and the guy gets sat in the most important game of the year. That was more irreparable perhaps than many of us thought.

But from the outside looking in, so what. So he overpayed for Neal. Every GM makes mistakes. Tre got this team some great players in trades and managed some tricky contract deals.

But now he just doubled down on that mistake by not putting Holland’s feet to the fire.

And this NMC…..did we just trade Neal + either Bennett or Mangiapane for Lucic and the potential 3rd?

And then they mobilize Peter Hanlon to round up the leadership and his nibs to give quotes to the press so they would have some material ready to face the disbelief from their fanbase?! Like we can’t see through that BS.

Gilmour in 1992, Phaneuf in 2010 and now Neal in 2019. The eras between brain numbing trades is measured in a geometric sequence….so now only 4.5 years until we flip Valimaki for Bobrovsky.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by I_H8_Crawford

So you're saying hits aren't subjective arena to arena?
The fact that this one unreliable stat is being thrown out to suggest the flames didn't get raped is pretty sad.

Lucic is a bad player on the worst contact in the NHL.

Neal is a bad player on a bad contact.

Flames get no tangible bonus to taking on Lucic outside of saving the owners some cash.

Oh no, for sure. Lucic is definitely butter soft. I imagine he'd be lucky if he had 5 legit hits last season. I bet 90% of his hit stats came only when played on home ice.

Flames absolutely got raped. They'll be lost without Neal for sure.

[Dienasty]

Originally Posted by I_H8_Crawford

We gave up a contract in that Neal could be left unprotected or bought out.

Now we have an immovable, buyout proof contact with ZERO guarantees that he will waive for expansion, so this trade could very well cost the flames an asset.

Neal was negative value, Lucic was even lower value than Neal. Oh and we just ate a bullet for the Oilers too, while getting NOTHING for taking that bullet.

Horrible trade.

Except for 500k in cap space, a possible third round pick, and toughness

[curves2000]

There are a lot of issues with regards to this trade so I will touch on them quickly if I can. I don't like this for a lot of reasons but I don't know the full details of everything behind the scenes either.

Milan Lucic is a player who appears to be losing his legs and his hands as he get's more miles on him, it's not his fault and there is very little he can do about it. This isn't a situation where he isn't in shape, can tinker with his offseason program and come back and become lights out. His game was always a heavier game and he was able to score while not being a great skater. In 2019 you need to be able to skate and skate hard, he can't and he can't fix that. He's listed at 230 lbs I believe and hes a LEAN 230 lbs, he can't get to 205 to improve his speed etc. He is who he is and will continue to fade all while wearing a Flames jersey and the Flames MIGHT by him out with his lower cash owing on the books. He might be selected by Seattle as well.

James Neal's situation is that he didn't come into camp at the proper shape and mental state for the game, end of story. My concern always going in was the effect of back to back Cup finals losses, that wears on somebody physically, mentally and is a killer for confidence, and it SHOWED!

Other players who had very short off-seasons and actually won the cup always talked about how hard it was to get ready. Toews, Kane, Brown, Kopitar, Richards, Carter, Kessel etc. Your body needs a break and the thought of doing what you need to do makes you feel awful.

James Neal needed a kick in the butt, a long offseason to feel better, workout and fall in love with the game again and on a team that has a lot of promise like the Flames. His issue with a conditioning one which in his case lead to a loss of playing with top tier players as well, no offence to Janko etc but playing with RNH or McDavid will be a different situation.

I fully expect Neal to bounce back and have a really really good season because his issues were correctable in some ways and I think Edmonton knew it. Lucic's just can't do anything on his front on the physical side, it is what it is. Even his "grit" that everybody keeps talking about probably won't show up. Everybody in Edmonton was freaking out because he wasn't protecting $100 million McDavid, arguably a top 3 player in the entire world. He's suppose to come to Calgary and break his already broken neck back & nose for Eat Bread and Vali??? I dunno, seem's like a lot of ask.

Just my $0.02 and I HOPE I am wrong on every single level

[getbak]

Lucic was credited with 136 hits in 39 home games (3.5 hits per game), and 123 hits in 40 road games (3.1 hits per game).

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by btimbit

How is it a worse move on the ice? Believe it or not, Lucic has actually been the better player lately, as terribly sad and pathetic as that is

For the Flames needs Lucic is a better 3rd/4th liner than Neal

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by I_H8_Crawford

"See? He's not useless! Look how many hits he had! Thrust the Oilers brainthrust!"

fyp.

[Snuffleupagus]

Lucic needs go see Roberts for the rest of the summer, if anything he can drop a barbell on Neals foot.