The Matthew Tkachuk contract negotiations

[Mitt31]

Don Mehan is the issue, every player he has that is decent they want way too much.

Save 6 mil for Chucky and then SIT his ass till Keith tells him to sign and prove he is worth more, Chucky will want to play hockey after sitting about 20 games and Benny takes his spot and is playing well.

Stay strong Tre and make no moves.... we'll be fine

[DeluxeMoustache]

^ agreed. And given the fact that after the season starts and time elapses, the first year cap hit increases, trying to get a deal done by Dec 1 is more difficult.

If I’m Tre, my Nov 30 offer is whatever the remaining cap room allows.

“You want to play this year? 1 yr 4 M. It’s all we have”

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Mitt31

Save 6 mil for Chucky and then SIT his ass till Keith tells him to sign and prove he is worth more,

Oh God, no let's not bank on Keith telling a player not to hold-out!

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

You do realize you were arguing the Flames should pay him no more than $5 million per year. That would be a pretty cheap offer sheet.

Or maybe you are changing your stance and now saying you would pay him more. Why else would you throw out this $11 million per year number?

5 M / year for 2 years is a bridge contract. That is why we (the fans) have lost seasons to a lockout. So that an 18 or 21 year old is not the highest paid player on the team and mess with the NHL's business model. (Remember Daigle being the highest paid player with great jr talent but mediocre NHL talent)

There would be no 5M offer sheet that Tkachuk would sign or a team would offer. But if the Flames said here it is take it or leave it. You can go play in the KHL and next year we will offer you 4M x 2. Not a lot Tkachuk can do.

Pretty sure the Leafs wish they would have done that with Nylander last season. Leafs would have his right for 5 more years unless they decided to trade him.

The 11M is what the offer sheet would need to be a Team wanted to actual get Tkachuk on their team. anything less and the Flames would match.

at 11M the Flames might not match and take the 4 first round picks.


Aho's 5- year offer sheet gets him to UFA status and after that he can pick where he wants to play. There was no chance that Carolina would not match as all they would have gotten in compensation was a 1st , 2nd and 3rd round pick... Less than the Islanders got for Hamonic. Less than the Jets got for Trouba. If Carolina is upset with the overpayment of Aho they can trade him next year for more than the compensation they would have gotten from Montreal.

Go back through this forum and countless times there have been explanations as to why UFAs get paid so much more than RFAs.

If Tkachuk is a ppg player over the next 2 year he gets 10/11 x8 in 2 years. If he falls back to 50 pt player he get a 6x6 in 2 years.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

5 M / year for 2 years is a bridge contract. That is why we (the fans) have lost seasons to a lockout. So that an 18 or 21 year old is not the highest paid player on the team and mess with the NHL's business model. (Remember Daigle being the highest paid player with great jr talent but mediocre NHL talent)

There would be no 5M offer sheet that Tkachuk would sign or a team would offer. But if the Flames said here it is take it or leave it. You can go play in the KHL and next year we will offer you 4M x 2. Not a lot Tkachuk can do.

Pretty sure the Leafs wish they would have done that with Nylander last season. Leafs would have his right for 5 more years unless they decided to trade him.

The 11M is what the offer sheet would need to be a Team wanted to actual get Tkachuk on their team. anything less and the Flames would match.

at 11M the Flames might not match and take the 4 first round picks.


Aho's 5- year offer sheet gets him to UFA status and after that he can pick where he wants to play. There was no chance that Carolina would not match as all they would have gotten in compensation was a 1st , 2nd and 3rd round pick... Less than the Islanders got for Hamonic. Less than the Jets got for Trouba. If Carolina is upset with the overpayment of Aho they can trade him next year for more than the compensation they would have gotten from Montreal.

Go back through this forum and countless times there have been explanations as to why UFAs get paid so much more than RFAs.

If Tkachuk is a ppg player over the next 2 year he gets 10/11 x8 in 2 years. If he falls back to 50 pt player he get a 6x6 in 2 years.

Well...other than tell them he will never play for them again and demands a trade...then sure.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Mitt31

Don Mehan is the issue, every player he has that is decent they want way too much.

Save 6 mil for Chucky and then SIT his ass till Keith tells him to sign and prove he is worth more, Chucky will want to play hockey after sitting about 20 games and Benny takes his spot and is playing well.

Stay strong Tre and make no moves.... we'll be fine

The is absolutely hilarious considering Keith's career.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Mitt31

Don Mehan is the issue, every player he has that is decent they want way too much.

Save 6 mil for Chucky and then SIT his ass till Keith tells him to sign and prove he is worth more, Chucky will want to play hockey after sitting about 20 games and Benny takes his spot and is playing well.

Stay strong Tre and make no moves.... we'll be fine

No he isn't.

Don Meehan is probably the single most respected agent in the game...by teams and his clients.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Well...other than tell them he will never play for them again and demands a trade...then sure.

Flames: If you want to play in the NHL this year you have our qualifying offer. It will be good for the 2020-21 season if you need some time to think about it.


Take the cap saved for Tkachuk and offer sheet Boeser for Aho's deal.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Flames: If you want to play in the NHL this year you have our qualifying offer. It will be good for the 2020-21 season if you need some time to think about it.





Take the cap saved for Tkachuk and offer sheet Boeser for Aho's deal.

Why not offer Tkachuk that deal? He might actually accept it.

The hang up Is likely term.


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[Jiggy]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Flames: If you want to play in the NHL this year you have our qualifying offer. It will be good for the 2020-21 season if you need some time to think about it.


Take the cap saved for Tkachuk and offer sheet Boeser for Aho's deal.

Now that's some brain thrusting!

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Why not offer Tkachuk that deal? He might actually accept it.

The hang up Is likely term.


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Offering Boeser that deal just messes with the Canucks... They match and pay more than they want or should. They can't offer sheet Tkachuk because they would have no cap left.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Can't we pull a LaBlanc in this situation? Let's say that Tkachuk wants 8.5m x 6 (51m). We sign him to a 1 x 6m and then on January 1st we sign him to a 9m x 5 afterwards. Frolik's, Brodie, and Hamonic will be off the books and we will have room to sign one of those guys and the remainder of the cap covers what Tkachuk wanted.

[Oling_Roachinen]

I'm not saying that it wouldn't happen, but I think that would be going against the spirit of the CBA to have actual numbers. And at this point it's pretty obvious they are bickering over numbers (duh).

"We'll give you a year contract at 6M and then we can reassess in January realizing the huge favour you gave us" *wink wink* might be alright.

"We'll give you a year contract 6M and then on January 1st we'll guarantee have a new 9M x 5 years contract to sign" I think would be going against the spirit of the CBA if somehow caught.

It would be hard to enforce, but the bigger issue is that Tkachuk has no guarantee and no recourse if January 1st comes around and the contract isn't there. If he gets injured in the first game, or gets in a fight with Giordano forcing him to be traded, he's out of luck.

The Flames also have no guarantee Tkachuk signs it on January 1st if he's leading the Art Ross trophy race at the time and is now asking for a 10Mx4 year contract at the time. Again, no recourse, no guarantee until pen is to paper.

And the Flames might not want to have a substantially higher cap-hit the following years as well. Using this year as a discounted RFA year to bring down his to contract's AAV cap-hit might make it tough this year but helps the next 4 or 5 years depending on term.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Well...other than tell them he will never play for them again and demands a trade...then sure.

Yep. I’m all for Treliving being firm in negotiations. But all this armchair advice about just offer him below market value and dare him to sit out or play in the KHL is dumb. Do these people not want the guy to actually play for the Flames?

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Yep. I’m all for Treliving being firm in negotiations. But all this armchair advice about just offer him below market value and dare him to sit out or play in the KHL is dumb. Do these people not want the guy to actually play for the Flames?

Why don’t you tell everyone what “market value” is for various terms from 1 year through 8?

[blender]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Why don’t you tell everyone what “market value” is for various terms from 1 year through 8?

Well we all know it is hard to discern market value, but 2 years at 5m as has been floated by Ricardo would certainly qualify as below market value and would likely be what was being referred to by SB

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by blender

Well we all know it is hard to discern market value, but 2 years at 5m as has been floated by Ricardo would certainly qualify as below market value and would likely be what was being referred to by SB

RicardodW is a Jets fan (proven many, many times) spewing nonsense that doesn't jive with reality in an attempt to troll Flames fans. I really wish everyone would see this and save a lot of time.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Right. And I have a lot of trouble with “market value”.

Because what is the goal of a team? Presumably, for most teams, it should be to win a championship.

And what does it take to win a championship?

Can you build a team that can win a cup by allocating over 13 percent of your salary to an individual? Or allocating such a large percentage to each of multiple individuals?

There is no evidence to say yes.

You sure can build a team that misses the playoffs or makes a first round exit that way.

I have another thread that shows the top contracts, listing pretty much anything signed for over 11.5% of the cap. The only players on that list to have won the cup are Crosby and Malkin, plus Ovechkin. (Kessel doesn’t count due to retained salary).

As soon as you pay top players more, you have to decide what roles receive cheaper players.

Just because Dubas is an idiot does not mean other GMs should be held to that standard

[jayswin]

^^^^^^^^

But all of this is just a bunch of words describing what you dislike about team builds in the NHL, where as GM's are negotiating with agents based on very specific stat criteria. None of that fan feeling stuff matters, what matters is whether you're willing to let a player like Tkachuk go because you don't like what it costs to retain him.

That's the difference between a GM and a fan blathering about how we can't afford to pay him market value. Not saying every GM is right, but if you're a GM you're in the market value game and trying negotiate below it, if you're a fan you're in the "well, I certainly wouldn't pay him more than X because blah blah blah" game.

It's a much easier game.

[dino7c]

If you ever want good players to play in Calgary you have to pay them market value...and its not 5M for a 77 point 21 year old

You can say I wouldn't pay them more that so and so all you want, if that is the case guys will want out as soon as they can and players will hate the organization (and we will complain they suck)

RFA forward market value right now on a 6+ year contract is 1M for every 10 points give or take