2023/2024 Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread

[MrMike]

Leafs and Tre have bigger problems now.

Sheldon Keefe says Joseph Woll “will miss some time for sure”. The extent of which will be known when they get home.

[browna]

Originally Posted by MrMike

Leafs and Tre have bigger problems now.

Sheldon Keefe says Joseph Woll “will miss some time for sure”. The extent of which will be known when they get home.

*cough*Vladar*cough*

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by MrMike

Leafs and Tre have bigger problems now.

Sheldon Keefe says Joseph Woll “will miss some time for sure”. The extent of which will be known when they get home.

That makes Toronto, Seattle, Carolina, New Jersey and Buffalo all rumoured to be in the market for goalies. Hopefully it drives up the price for Edmonton as well, when Skinner turns back into a pumpkin.

[dino7c]

Leafs have less regulation wins than the Flames, they are going nowhere

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

You mean like the massive overpay the Canucks were forced to pay to get Zadorov?

It's amazes me the power that the Toronto media has on fans, a hit and a goal against the Leafs and the media have people think an overpaid 5-6 Dman is worth the farm.

Fact: Zadorov had to go and go quick, Conroy got the best deal without retaining a dime.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

It's amazes me the power that the Toronto media has on fans, a hit and a goal against the Leafs and the media have people think an overpaid 5-6 Dman is worth the farm.

Fact: Zadorov had to go and go quick, Conroy got the best deal without retaining a dime.

Do people think he's worth the farm or do people just realize the return was quite underwhelming? You can say 5th dman all you want but a real fact is that teams covet big dmen going into the playoffs. Especially ones with some grit who actually use their size. You have to completely ignore that fact to think the return was anything but underwhelming.

I also don't think it was super urgent he had to be dealt immediately. Two or three more months wouldn't be the end of the world. Especially if it allowed other teams to be able to fit the contract when only 25% was remaining.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Do people think he's worth the farm or do people just realize the return was quite underwhelming? You can say 5th dman all you want but a real fact is that teams covet big dmen going into the playoffs. Especially ones with some grit who actually use their size. You have to completely ignore that fact to think the return was anything but underwhelming.

I also don't think it was super urgent he had to be dealt immediately. Two or three more months wouldn't be the end of the world. Especially if it allowed other teams to be able to fit the contract when only 25% was remaining.

It's already been established looking at past deals that this is what bottom pairing generally guys go for.
You may not like it. You may have wanted more. But the market dictates the price. Not the other way.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Do people think he's worth the farm or do people just realize the return was quite underwhelming? You can say 5th dman all you want but a real fact is that teams covet big dmen going into the playoffs. Especially ones with some grit who actually use their size. You have to completely ignore that fact to think the return was anything but underwhelming.

I also don't think it was super urgent he had to be dealt immediately. Two or three more months wouldn't be the end of the world. Especially if it allowed other teams to be able to fit the contract when only 25% was remaining.

Well, I'm sure we could've received more if the player we were trading did not publicly ask for a trade request. That likely dropped the potential of getting a 2nd round pick to a 3rd and 5th. Additionally, he was wanting more ice time, but we weren't giving it to him because he's the inferior defenseman. And he's going to be in the same exact situation when Soucy comes back in Vancouver.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Flames with the top 3 names on the TSN trade board:
https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/calgary-flame...ist-1.2046296?

[Vinny01]

The theme continues with the Flames 3 UFA’s all at the top of the TSN trade board.

Edit- what Jiri said

[GioforPM]

If Jake Allen is on the list Vladar should be as well.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

It's already been established looking at past deals that this is what bottom pairing generally guys go for.
You may not like it. You may have wanted more. But the market dictates the price. Not the other way.

The biggest thing with Zadorov is some people view him as a #3-4 and that threw expectations out of whack. There was a small minority who legit thought he was the Flames best dman.

[ST20]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

It's already been established looking at past deals that this is what bottom pairing generally guys go for.
You may not like it. You may have wanted more. But the market dictates the price. Not the other way.

I don't get this line of thinking. This means that no trade in the history of trades are bad because the market at the time dictated the price. You can choose to hold out on trading someone until the market changes.

I also don't buy that Zadarov needed to be traded at this time because of the trade request causing Lockeroom issues. Yes, it probably annoyed guys in the room (as it should) but they are all professionals. Some of them have borderline trade requests of their own. There's never been any indication from players or anyone around the team that he is a bad teammate.

Conroy allowed circumstances around the request to force his hand which is reactionary in nature and typically not good business. I don't think the return is that bad but he definitely could have gotten more with patience.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by ST20

I don't get this line of thinking. This means that no trade in the history of trades are bad because the market at the time dictated the price. You can choose to hold out on trading someone until the market changes.

That’s not really what market dictates the returns means though.Return was in line for a #5D. Anything above or below it would have been the variance to judge. If he traded Zadorov for just a 5th that would be below average market value and if he got a 1st it would have been a great trade.
The Phaneuf trade was bad the day it was made as it was under market value for young #2D.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by ST20

Conroy allowed circumstances around the request to force his hand which is reactionary in nature and typically not good business. I don't think the return is that bad but he definitely could have gotten more with patience.

Conroy did actually admit that though.

He straight up said that maybe they could have returned more closer to the deadline or with salary retention.

They just felt that moving him now, without having to retain, and opening up that cap space for between now and the trade deadline, was more important than the potential improvement they could have received.

Now it really remains to be seen for us as fans because I do think the return was light. But if Kylington might actually return then that's a factor (need the cap to activate him, trade value's are immediately lower if teams know you need to shed cap). There might be also other things they have heard around the NHL where they feel they could use the cap to help other things happen.

Really we can't judge it until the deadline. If no other moves happen where the Flames needed the cap space, and the Flames don't use all their retention slots, then I think it's fair to say they messed up the Zadorov deal by not waiting, but don't think we can make that judgement yet.

[Hockey_Ninja]

Reading that Snow and the analytics department talked Tre out of trading for Ristolainen makes me wonder what other mistakes he helped prevent

[ST20]

Originally Posted by Bonded

That’s not really what market dictates the returns means though.Return was in line for a #5D. Anything above or below it would have been the variance to judge. If he traded Zadorov for just a 5th that would be below average market value and if he got a 1st it would have been a great trade.
The Phaneuf trade was bad the day it was made as it was under market value for young #2D.

In my opinion the variance is what people are annoyed with. When you trade that 5D (who would be a 4 on many teams) makes a big difference. There seems to be many contenders looking to add size in the back end due to underperformance of the team or injuries. The reason why the trade had to happen now was not convincing and if they were patient they could have gotten more. I don't see a pressing need for why it needed to happen now.

[ST20]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Conroy did actually admit that though.

He straight up said that maybe they could have returned more closer to the deadline or with salary retention.

They just felt that moving him now, without having to retain, and opening up that cap space for between now and the trade deadline, was more important than the potential improvement they could have received.

Now it really remains to be seen for us as fans because I do think the return was light. But if Kylington might actually return then that's a factor (need the cap to activate him, trade value's are immediately lower if teams know you need to shed cap). There might be also other things they have heard around the NHL where they feel they could use the cap to help other things happen.

Really we can't judge it until the deadline. If no other moves happen where the Flames needed the cap space, and the Flames don't use all their retention slots, then I think it's fair to say they messed up the Zadorov deal by not waiting, but don't think we can make that judgement yet.

There is no clear reason for why it needed to happen now and I think that is good enough reason for fans to complain and not be told that they should let it go because it was market value. If Kylington was returning in the near term (does not sound like it) and they needed the cap space then sure. I don't believe that would be an issue for trading him since they've been tight lipped about the whole situation so I don't think it would have gotten out that he was returning before they needed to make a move.

I agree that we can't truly judge it until the deadline though. As you mentioned, this could be the first move for Conroy hitting it out of the park by weaponizing that cap space. He could also end up extending everyone, or trading for Ristoleinen making the cap space moot. In the end, I just think it is fair play for fans to be unhappy with the return given what they know so far or the current "market" of information.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

Reading that Snow and the analytics department talked Tre out of trading for Ristolainen makes me wonder what other mistakes he helped prevent

Likely a lot. The Flames were tied to OEL for a long time before he eventually went to the Canucks.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by ST20

In my opinion the variance is what people are annoyed with. When you trade that 5D (who would be a 4 on many teams) makes a big difference. There seems to be many contenders looking to add size in the back end due to underperformance of the team or injuries. The reason why the trade had to happen now was not convincing and if they were patient they could have gotten more. I don't see a pressing need for why it needed to happen now.

I think that is the extra annoyance on Zadorov. I don't think he is 4D on a playoff team let alone a contender and he never had that trade value. Selling three dmen at the deadline might also have led to decreased value for the entire lot especially if they needed to dump cap to activate Kylington.