2021 NHL Draft

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Don't disagree about your observations about Pronman but I also enjoy reading different POVs. Similar to Button - he has his list, and it's his views. He doesn't get caught up in trying to create a list that aligns with others. I like looking across a few different views to help challenge my assumptions about certain players.

What I do like about Pronman is generally he values upside and skill. Which is entirely my view on how you should approach the draft - home run cuts in each round. Draft for franchise altering potential, not guys to play in your bottom 6. Ceiling over floor every time.

Pronman overvalues upside and skill. He sees potential without seeing limiting factors. He loves him the small skilled guys, not recognizing that the game requires some size and toughness. There are only so many positions on a roster for guys who are 5'10 and weigh 175 pounds, regardless of how skilled they are or how fancy they can be with the puck.

My philosophy is draft guys that have the greatest potential to be NHL players. I prefer certain skillsets and physical make up, but draft guys that have a future. Games are won by having depth and the ability to roll line-after-line. Always take the best player available on your list, but do so with the intent of drafting an NHL player. That doesn't mean passing on all small guys, just knowing when to pick them. That also doesn't mean drafting only coke machines either. Guys need to be able to skate and think at the NHL level to be NHL players. If a player does not have those minimums, then its a hard pass.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Yeah that's where we disagree. I would use the draft to get stars. I would ask my scouts for all selections "tell me how this guy could be a front of the line-up player for us". Of course the deeper the draft the least likely. But that's OK. That's how you get Point, Gaudreau, Kucherov, etc. Draft for impactful players. Sign depth.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Yeah that's where we disagree. I would use the draft to get stars. I would ask my scouts for all selections "tell me how this guy could be a front of the line-up player for us". Of course the deeper the draft the least likely. But that's OK. That's how you get Point, Gaudreau, Kucherov, etc. Draft for impactful players. Sign depth.

You can't just "sign depth." Have we learned nothing watch Brad Treliving continually step all over his dick trying to do so? Making mistakes in trying to sign depth can result in 3rd and 4th line being paid $8M+. Horrible management of resources. You want to play your top end players the big money, then have good young players coming in that give you depth and keep your cap in check. This is why the Flames suck.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Ok, this is not a fair post, and it may come back to haunt me...


Chaz Lucius gives me some heebie jeebies. Why? I read it as Chaz Luscious. Is that a porn star name? Is that a pot-head name? Is that a heel wrestler name like Adorable Adrian Adonis?



If there was ever a name in a draft that reminded me of a Rico Fata, this is it.


Before anyone smacks me too much for making fun of a name, I have an uncommon foreign name from somewhere in Europe. Doesn't give me a license to poke fun at someone else's name, I know.


Just dammit... Chaz Lucius reminds me of Rico Fata.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

You can't just "sign depth." Have we learned nothing watch Brad Treliving continually step all over his dick trying to do so? Making mistakes in trying to sign depth can result in 3rd and 4th line being paid $8M+. Horrible management of resources. You want to play your top end players the big money, then have good young players coming in that give you depth and keep your cap in check. This is why the Flames suck.

Sure you can. Montreal just did.

You can be terrible at signing depth, as an individual GM. But the option is there if you’re competent.m

Edit: further to this, your closing statement is exactly it. Impact players, drafted, coming in an making a difference with cap friendly contracts while young.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Ok, this is not a fair post, and it may come back to haunt me...


Chaz Lucius gives me some heebie jeebies. Why? I read it as Chaz Luscious. Is that a porn star name? Is that a pot-head name? Is that a heel wrestler name like Adorable Adrian Adonis?



If there was ever a name in a draft that reminded me of a Rico Fata, this is it.


Before anyone smacks me too much for making fun of a name, I have an uncommon foreign name from somewhere in Europe. Doesn't give me a license to poke fun at someone else's name, I know.


Just dammit... Chaz Lucius reminds me of Rico Fata.

I hear you, Ferdinand.
I am ok with many of the names being bantered about, except Lysell, and, fortunately, it seems, we are not too interested in him...

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Sure you can. Montreal just did.

You can be terrible at signing depth, as an individual GM. But the option is there if you’re competent.

Yeah, I think you can - you just need to be able to scout/analyze pro players, and the Flames seem to be very, very bad at that...

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

You can't just "sign depth." Have we learned nothing watch Brad Treliving continually step all over his dick trying to do so? Making mistakes in trying to sign depth can result in 3rd and 4th line being paid $8M+. Horrible management of resources. You want to play your top end players the big money, then have good young players coming in that give you depth and keep your cap in check. This is why the Flames suck.

James Neal wasn’t signed for depth
He was signed to be an front line player

[Enoch Root]

Is the problem scouting? Or is it a case of, whoever they sign, it doesn't work out because there is a fundamental issue with the lineup?

I find it difficult to accept that ALL of the Flames' players are degrading, and all of the UFA signings are bad. it is much more plausible to infer that there is a problem with the lineup that is causing everyone to under-perform.

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Yeah, I think you can - you just need to be able to scout/analyze pro players, and the Flames seem to be very, very bad at that...

True but that just means the flames need to improve in that area. In the same way that the flames need a skilled RW or a puck-moving defenseman, the flames need to improve their professional scouting. Every year there are capable veteran depth players looking for a short term contract at a bargain (Perry/Staal/Spezza/etc.) that end up bringing just as much or even more value to the team as the guys that management pays guys big money and long term for (Neal/Lucic/Brouwer). Pro scouting needs to be better for filling out the bottom half of the roster so that high ceiling potential can be targeted in the draft to fill out the top of the roster.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Is the problem scouting? Or is it a case of, whoever they sign, it doesn't work out because there is a fundamental issue with the lineup?

I find it difficult to accept that ALL of the Flames' players are degrading, and all of the UFA signings are bad. it is much more plausible to infer that there is a problem with the lineup that is causing everyone to under-perform.

I think it's a problem with pro scouting and NHL talent evaluation.
That and general cap management. Plus bad coaching. But I think Neal would have been a dud on the Flames regardless of the coach.

Feaster didn't know how to evaluated NHL talent. Yet he was much better at UFA signings. It's probably because he was more willing to refer to his personnel than Treliving is.
Either way, Treliving definitely has to take the blame for the UFA shortcomings.

When it comes to prospect development, I don't think it has been that bad. A lot of it comes down to coaching. It would be nice if the Heat made the playoffs more than twice per decade. More ice time for development. They've only made the playoffs 3 of the past 14 years and haven't been past the first round in 20 years. Sound familiar?

[Table 5]

Even if it's not always successful, it's still a lot easier (and cheaper) to sign depth than it is to acquire skilled top-line talent. The draft definitely should emphasize the latter, even if there are more busts along the way.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Drafting Warren Foegle in the third round doesn't change your franchise (even though he has 200 NHL games)
Drafting Brayden Point does.

[BagoPucks]

I have always thought that the flames don't have a drafting issue they have a developing issue. But I have nothing to point to this and explain. Hard to from the outside

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Sandman

LW Oskar Olausson, 6'2"181lbs (HV-71 J20Nationell, SWE): Olausson played mainly in the J20 this year with stops in the SHL and Allsvenskan. In the J20, he dominated with 14 goals and 27 points in 16 games (1.68 p/gp)-compare that to Lysell, who had 13 points in 11 games (1.18 p/gp). Olausson also had a higher points per game in the men's league than Lysell. Olausson was 2nd on his J20 team in scoring, and tied for 5th in the entire league. He got a chance to play in the WJC, but didn't see a lot of ice.

Olausson possesses great mobility, and is praised for his ability to gain the zone neatly and with control, setting up for teammates. He can manoevre around, or through attackers. He keeps his feet moving, and is agile and quick. His speed and size make him hard to contain on the cycle. Very quick in transition.

One of the pillars of his skill-set is his great shot and quick release-he's a threat to score from anywhere on the ice. Olausson is quite strong for his age, and has a great work ethic-plays at a high tempo. He helps out defensively on the back-check, and forces turnovers-however he doesn't always show the same consistency in his own end as he does in the other two zones, which has led to some questions about his IQ. He can sometimes lose his man. Even though he works hard, he can be inconsistent from shift to shift. He is trusted on the PP and the PK, though. He isn't overly physical though, despite his size.

Olausson looks to be a first-rounder, as he has first-round talent. He'll go somewhere between 20-32.

It kind of seems like Oskar Olausson might be one of the biggest wildcards in the draft.
He could go pretty much anywhere in the first round. Oskar Olausson has the natural tools to succeed in the NHL, but it seems like proper development is crucial. Get that consistency and awareness down.

Do you know how he looked in the international tournaments?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Sure you can. Montreal just did.

You can be terrible at signing depth, as an individual GM. But the option is there if you’re competent.m

Edit: further to this, your closing statement is exactly it. Impact players, drafted, coming in an making a difference with cap friendly contracts while young.

Montreal didn't do it that way. You may want to take a look at how the Canadiens were built. Of the players on their current COVID roster, only 9 were drafted. 14 were traded for. Their signings have provided depth, but it is not like Montreal has been the model for drafting top end talent and supporting it with depth signings.

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

James Neal wasn’t signed for depth
He was signed to be an front line player

Treliving signed more than James Neal. What's more, he turned James Neal into an equally bad contract that could only play down the lineup in that 3rd or 4th line capacity. Neal is not an excuse for Mason Raymond, Troy Brouwer, and so on. If the team had developed their own bodies, they wouldn't have had to flush needed money down the toilet on bad depth players. Swings for the fences don't generate much if you're not a power hitter, which the Calgary scouting staff has proven they are not. Better to be hitting singles, doubles, and the odd triple, than hoping you knock one out of the park every time you come to the plate.

[Jiri Hrdina]

I think the Amateur scouting staff has been really good - including when they focus on skilled players.
The pro scouting has been terrible. No debate there.

I'm going for home runs each and every time - and I bet by doing so you'd end up in a better state at the end of it. I theorize that this is Tampa Bays' approach which is why they've been so good at drafting.

[Kipper_3434]

Are our prospects not developing cause we sign garbage depth players? I think so, Flames were developing all kinds of interesting depth forwards before teeliving started overpaying for depth. I think its under discussed how important NHL minutes and opportunity are for developing players beyond replacement level.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I think the Amateur scouting staff has been really good - including when they focus on skilled players.

I disagree. I think the Flames drafting has been middle of the road at absolute best. Since taking over as GM in 2014 the Flames have not exactly ripped it up. 1 for 6 in 2014, and only the disappointing Sam Bennett to show for it. A much improved 3 for 5 in 2015, getting Andersson and Mangiapane, then Kylington, who the team doesn't either trust or appreciate. 2016 should have been a high point, going 3 for 8 and grabbing Tkachuk, Dube, and Fox, but the latter decided he never had interest in playing for anyone other than the Rangers (should have been caught in interviews). Things start to dry up after that. 2016 has the team going (liberally) 2 for 5, with Valimaki being a bit of a disappointment, but could still turn it around. The remainder of that draft rests on Ruzicka. Still some hope, but the fact that the other three picks generated only an ECHL player is a disappointment. 2017 looks like a big goose egg, 0 for 5. No one looks like a player in this group. 2018 and 2019 will be judged shortly as contracts are handed out and we see what we have through some play, but I'm not seeing much hype around the guys we've picked. That's 9 for 29, with arguably the best selection playing for another team, and our minor league affiliate bereft of even AHL quality players. Good drafting should at least have your minor league team well stocked at all times. It sure would have been nice to not have to see Treliving go out and sign a bunch of junk to fill out the lower part of the roster and instead have some bodies from the minors to be able to step in. If swinging for the fences means having a minor league affiliate without bodies to support the NHL squad, our scouts need some batting cage time and some instruction on hitting the gaps. Too many fly balls out of this group IMO.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Ok, this is not a fair post, and it may come back to haunt me...


Chaz Lucius gives me some heebie jeebies. Why? I read it as Chaz Luscious. Is that a porn star name? Is that a pot-head name? Is that a heel wrestler name like Adorable Adrian Adonis?



If there was ever a name in a draft that reminded me of a Rico Fata, this is it.


Before anyone smacks me too much for making fun of a name, I have an uncommon foreign name from somewhere in Europe. Doesn't give me a license to poke fun at someone else's name, I know.


Just dammit... Chaz Lucius reminds me of Rico Fata.

At least it’s better than Ludacris.